Help save a fellow Londoner’s life

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705 Londoners have responded | 16/10/2023 - 17/03/2024

A female member of the London Ambulance Service is performing CPR on a doll as part of a training course on lifesaving skills.

Using defibrillators in London

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Did you know that 87% of cardiac arrests (when a person’s heart stops beating) happen outside of hospital?  

Maximising the number of defibrillators across London will help people increase their chances of surviving a cardiac arrest.  

A defibrillator is a device that gives an electric shock to the heart of someone who is in cardiac arrest. 

On 16 October 2023 - World Restart a Heart day - the Mayor announced that all London Underground and Overground stations now have public defibrillators.

City Hall’s Health policy team wants to know if Londoners will feel confident enough to use these new defibrillators if they see a person in cardiac arrest. Astrid, Anmol and Kay from the team will be reading your contributions and signposting to lifesaving training and resources.   

We want to hear from you: 

  • Would you feel confident using a defibrillator if you see someone having a cardiac arrest? Why or why not? 
  • What might hold you back from using a defibrillator? 
  • Where in your local area or community have you seen a defib? What kind of places would you like to see more defibs? 
  • What, if anything, would encourage you to sign-up to a free course on using defibrillators and lifesaving skills?  
  • What do you think might help raise awareness of these new defibrillators and empower people to use them?  

Tell us more in the discussion below.  

The discussion ran from 16 October 2023 - 17 March 2024

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Comments (226)

Avatar for - Amur leopard

I think this is a very worthwhile initiative. But it isn’t just a case of providing this equipment, but the training to use it and whilst training videos have their place there is nothing more useful than an in person practical lesson. When...

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I think this is a very worthwhile initiative. But it isn’t just a case of providing this equipment, but the training to use it and whilst training videos have their place there is nothing more useful than an in person practical lesson. When you consider all those retirees who were trained to give CPR and use defibrillators would it not be cost effective to offer refresher training to all those who still reside in London. I refer to firemen, police officers, military and medical professionals who retired in the last 10-20 years.

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A very worthwhile skill to learn, do not be afraid of any legal issues, they do not exist. I have saved two lives with the recovery position, another easy to learn skill.

Avatar for - Sumatran elephant

I will be looking out to identify defibrillators at my local tube and train stations from now on. This survey has alerted me to the fact they are there. Well done Mayor Sadiq for having them there.  I would need training to use one so I'm...

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I will be looking out to identify defibrillators at my local tube and train stations from now on. This survey has alerted me to the fact they are there. Well done Mayor Sadiq for having them there.  I would need training to use one so I'm keen to see where I can get that.  Thanks too for organising the training !  I will definitely go for it.

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i would like to do a free course on how to use a defib  but dont know where to go

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i would like to do a free course on how to use a defib  but dont know where to go

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Avatar for - Sumatran elephant

Perfectly happy to use as one gets step by step instructions and the defibrillator is likely to be the Patient’s best chance of surviving.

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I forgot schools.   Empower children of all ages, give them a skill and knowledge

 

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I forgot schools.   Empower children of all ages, give them a skill and knowledge

 

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  • Would you feel confident using a defibrillator if you see someone having a cardiac arrest? Why or why not? 

    If the instructions were clear and I could find a defib then I would try and use it

  • What might hold you back from using a...

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  • Would you feel confident using a defibrillator if you see someone having a cardiac arrest? Why or why not? 

    If the instructions were clear and I could find a defib then I would try and use it

  • What might hold you back from using a defibrillator? 

    Poor intsructions

  • Where in your local area or community have you seen a defib? 

    Station, Hospital but not enough nearby

    What kind of places would you like to see more defibs? 

    Supermarkets, shops, work places, public offices, post offies

  • What, if anything, would encourage you to sign-up to a free course on using defibrillators and lifesaving skills?  

    I would very much appreciate a free course on using a defib or lifesaving at a sensible time of day and near me

    What do you think might help raise awareness of these new defibrillators and empower people to use them?  

    Getting them into soaps on tv, instagram, tiktok, discussion on music radio, ads on things liked spotify, make it easy for people to access courses, illustrate what they look like, get conversation going - social media can be for the good not all bad

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Apparently, it's easy. I never cease to wonder at the complexities of technology and human endeavour, but these take you through the steps and won't fire if there's a sign of a heartbeat. I said I was fairly confident in using one, having...

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Apparently, it's easy. I never cease to wonder at the complexities of technology and human endeavour, but these take you through the steps and won't fire if there's a sign of a heartbeat. I said I was fairly confident in using one, having seen what's involved and being reasonably bright, but it really is much simpler than everyone, including myself, thinks. I think that's the message that needs to be put out, that anyone can use them, they will take you through the process.

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I have seen defibrillators in many places and while I have heard that between 999 and the instructions on the machine that they are relativele straightforward I still would feel apprehensive about using one. 

Giving CPR is something I would...

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I have seen defibrillators in many places and while I have heard that between 999 and the instructions on the machine that they are relativele straightforward I still would feel apprehensive about using one. 

Giving CPR is something I would feel more confident but am probably basing my knowledge on somethiong I read a long time ago... 

I would be quite keen to have some training on this as I think it is important partly as I cycle in the countryside I might find myself far from immediate help if someone needed it. We should all have some basic first aid training beyond anything from DoE. 

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Avatar for - Sea turtle

I am trying to find a list on your website of where I can learn how to use a defibrillator but cannot.

Avatar for - Amur leopard

You could watch this first of all  www.london.gov.uk/londonlifesaver

Then look into this

https://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/getting-involved/become-a-london-lifesaver/

Organisations such as Red Cross, St Johns and other private providers also...

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You could watch this first of all  www.london.gov.uk/londonlifesaver

Then look into this

https://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/getting-involved/become-a-london-lifesaver/

Organisations such as Red Cross, St Johns and other private providers also run courses, almost always for a fee, though

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Roz - just Google 'using a defib'.  And to find them, Google 'nearest defib'.

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Roz - just Google 'using a defib'.  And to find them, Google 'nearest defib'.

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I think that  more awareness is needed on where Defibrillators are and how to use them. I would welcome training on how to use one and how to do CPR.  When volunteering in London this summer I used an ap to find info on where to find the...

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I think that  more awareness is needed on where Defibrillators are and how to use them. I would welcome training on how to use one and how to do CPR.  When volunteering in London this summer I used an ap to find info on where to find the nearest defibrillator but it seemed aimed at professionals and finding a professional near by, but having to try and make sense of this took time and that is what you don't have in an emergency situation. 

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To me the key is knowing where a defibrillator is - it would be really helpful for example if Citymapper could be encouraged to show locations on their maps. It would be good too if there was one somewhere in our residential area, as well...

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To me the key is knowing where a defibrillator is - it would be really helpful for example if Citymapper could be encouraged to show locations on their maps. It would be good too if there was one somewhere in our residential area, as well. Having once been shown how to use a defib, and many times how to do CPR, including on a dummy, an occasional practice session to remind would be really helpful.

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Google 'defib near me' - it will give you links to where they are located and their availability times.

Also, Google 'using a defib' to get confidence.

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Hi Lowecm3.

Thank you for your comment.

If you want to check out where your nearest defib is, visit: GoodSam or BHF's DefibFinder. Some defibrillators are publicly accessible and others are private. The defibrillators recently rolled out on the TfL network are publicly accessible. If you can't spot a defibrillator in an emergency, the 999 call operator will advise you as to where the nearest one is is. 

If you're looking to do more training, then this page provides a demo video on performing chest compressions and using a defibrillator, as well as info on where to find more CPR and defibrillator training through the British Heart Foundation and the London Ambulance Service. 

A key thing to know is that using a defibrillator is safe. It walks through what you need to do, and it will advise you if a shock is needed. It won't shock if it isn't. 

Hope you find this info helpful.

Mia (Talk London team)

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First aid should be taught in schools, starting with Reception learning how to use 999 to get help then progressing on to CPR by 11. Then we should have Appointed Persons first aid classes more freely available and subsidised for adults. It...

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First aid should be taught in schools, starting with Reception learning how to use 999 to get help then progressing on to CPR by 11. Then we should have Appointed Persons first aid classes more freely available and subsidised for adults. It's not just about CPR, it's knowing how to manage a casualty incident - risk assessing and keeping yourself and the casualty safe, how to call 99 effectively and what happens when you make a 999 call. Then the actual administering of lifesaving aid. 

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Great idea - in some countries all citizens have to know how to do CPR. Lots of initiatives in UK in the past. Best way so far is 'train the trainer'. Train an army of Londoners and in turn they will train others. :)

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I wouldn't be confident using a defibrillator, especially in the light of what BrentTaylor mentions. Do any of the public defibrillators have a safety feature that warns the user if a heartbeat is detected?

Avatar for - Amur leopard

Yes, all AEDs do, they will direct you in pretty much all aspects of the process, even when to start/stop CPR, (many even have a metronome feature to keep you up to speed). They won't direct you to do anything wrong/bad   

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Yes, all AEDs do, they will direct you in pretty much all aspects of the process, even when to start/stop CPR, (many even have a metronome feature to keep you up to speed). They won't direct you to do anything wrong/bad   

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Hello! I would highly recommend watching this video: www.london.gov.uk/londonlifesaver. It explains how to use a defibrillator and perform CPR. A key thing we want people to know is that a defib will walk you right through what you're supposed to do, and it will detect whether a person needs a shock or not.

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I would be comfortable-ish preforming CPR on an adult (I did a baby CPR course not long ago and an adult one years ago) but I would have no idea how to safely use a defibrillator. I would be interested in doing training so I knew how to do...

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I would be comfortable-ish preforming CPR on an adult (I did a baby CPR course not long ago and an adult one years ago) but I would have no idea how to safely use a defibrillator. I would be interested in doing training so I knew how to do so.

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There are lots of willing people in these Comments but with little recent knowledge - me included.

I had a look - if you Google 'defib near me' it will give you links to where they are located and their availability times.

I sympathise with...

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There are lots of willing people in these Comments but with little recent knowledge - me included.

I had a look - if you Google 'defib near me' it will give you links to where they are located and their availability times.

I sympathise with the 'how do I use it?' comments.  Again, Google 'using a defib' gives videos and advice.  Preferably before you need it!

I have never seen a heart attack, but I have had to use my office's general first aid training at five road accidents and for the occasional domestic-grade mishap.  It would be much better to give a couple of hours of free easy-access training for a wide range of first aid issues - cuts, diabetes, falls, burns, accidents and heart attacks/defibs.   This gives you confidence to get involved, not just assume that the person kneeling by the victim knows anything - they probably don't. 

 Yes, defibs are high profile magic boxes, but I have no idea of the relative statistics.  These choices and investment should be guided by evidence, not by guessing, well-meaning campaigns or PR value. 

 

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Avatar for - Colombian spotted frog

Would like to update  my life-saving skills as CPR changes on a regular basis and mine have not beven updated since 2017.

The difibrillator normally talks  one through how to use it, but again, to actually practice is always good for muscle...

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Would like to update  my life-saving skills as CPR changes on a regular basis and mine have not beven updated since 2017.

The difibrillator normally talks  one through how to use it, but again, to actually practice is always good for muscle memory and confidence.

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Muscle memory only develops after often repeated movements. I don't mean to criticize, I think I know what you mean and I might be being pedantic (I often am, sorry), but we should all know how to use these machines, even if they talk you...

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Muscle memory only develops after often repeated movements. I don't mean to criticize, I think I know what you mean and I might be being pedantic (I often am, sorry), but we should all know how to use these machines, even if they talk you through the procedure – which I'm willing to bet most people don't know. I put fairly confident, having never used one, but knowing enough to be in the knowledge that is there's no one else I will use one.

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Avatar for - Koala

Defibrillation should not be attempted outside an intensive care unit or operating theatre. 

If someone has had a real cardiac arrest (ventricular fibrillation or cardiac a-systole, or persistent ventricular tachycardia) brain damage (or...

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Defibrillation should not be attempted outside an intensive care unit or operating theatre. 

If someone has had a real cardiac arrest (ventricular fibrillation or cardiac a-systole, or persistent ventricular tachycardia) brain damage (or death) happens within 15-25 seconds. It’s too late by the time the defibrillator can be made operative. 

Most ‘cardiac arrests’ are faints or fits. Pushing up and down on the sufferers chest or giving them an electric shock will do only harm. 

Such interventions are likely to cause much more harm than benefit.

What is the evidence that public defibrillators (or cardiopulmonary resuscitation)  do any good? 
 
I’m a retired medical professor and have worked in A & Es, in Intensive Care Units and in Operating Theatres. 

I’ve also trained lots of medical students and paramedics in cardiopulmonary resuscitation and in the use of defibrillators. It’s not easy. 

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A modern AED (Automated External Defibrillator) will assess the casualty before making a decision whether to shock. The user has very little control over it - they put the pads on the casualty, press the Go button, then the machine will...

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A modern AED (Automated External Defibrillator) will assess the casualty before making a decision whether to shock. The user has very little control over it - they put the pads on the casualty, press the Go button, then the machine will make a decision on whether and what shock to deliver based on its analysis of the casualty's electrical output. Of course the machines used by medics allow much more fine tuning of the settings, but that's why we have people like you to train those specialists, and specialist skills to provide expert pre hospital and hospital care. 

 

With these modern defibrillators, there have been demonstrable improvement in outside hospital arrest situations - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5127419/ is a good literature review showing this. 

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This statement is nonsense and needs to be challenged especially as the author claims to be a retired medical professor. Having searched his profile he appears to be a retired professor of community child health therefore he is certainly...

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This statement is nonsense and needs to be challenged especially as the author claims to be a retired medical professor. Having searched his profile he appears to be a retired professor of community child health therefore he is certainly not an expert in the field of resuscitation. Defibrillation when used for out of hospital cardiac arrests saves lives. There are many examples but Fabrice Muamba and Glenn Hoddle come to mind. If a defibrillator is used within 3-5 minutes of cardiac arrest, survival rates jump from 6 per cent to 74 per cent. See https://firstaidforlife.org.uk/why-defibrillators-save-lives/ 

I agree that most collapses are faints - the medical term being vaso-vagal episodes, during which breathing and pulse are maintained. Some are caused by fits but these involve twitching or stiffness in the body or limb shaking with reduced consciousness, but the presence of a pulse, whereas when there is cardiac arrest there is no breathing and no pulse, and the victim is still. 

An automatic defibrillator should only be used when there is no pulse. It gives voice prompts and analyses the heart rhythm and only advises the user to initiate a shock when it detects a particular heart rhythm known as ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia (without a pulse). Bystanders do need to be trained in basic life support and how to use a defibrillator.


I am a practising NHS hospital physician. I work in A&E and on an emergency medical admissions ward, I spent some of my training in intensive care units and was the team leader for in-hospital cardiac arrests.

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Avatar for - Sea turtle

Thanks Tinyclanger and Jakey for the clarification, it was needed here.  And also actually to BrentTaylor who I'm sure was well meaning but initiated the response required. Seems they are useful machines, they do save lives, there is...

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Thanks Tinyclanger and Jakey for the clarification, it was needed here.  And also actually to BrentTaylor who I'm sure was well meaning but initiated the response required. Seems they are useful machines, they do save lives, there is research which shows that, and any attempt to use one in an emergency, whether trained or untrained in their absence, perhaps with help from a 999 call operator, is far better than standing back helpless.  So lets have more of them? And a google site which we can be confident is constantly updated (or, 'live', as that's an appropriate word here!)

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My point entirely. Leave it to the professionals. Otherwise the phrase ‘Is there a Doctor in the house?’ might be augmented with the words ‘or anyone who has watched a TfL defribulation video’

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Except that when a person does go into cardiac arrest, they have seconds before damage starts being done to the brain and vital organs and less than 5 minutes before the lack of oxygen will cause death. It's extremely unlikely that, with no...

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Except that when a person does go into cardiac arrest, they have seconds before damage starts being done to the brain and vital organs and less than 5 minutes before the lack of oxygen will cause death. It's extremely unlikely that, with no bystander resuscitation attempt, medics will arrive in time. 

In this case, the AED is the professional. It will not cause harm - I've been a fully conscious volunteer attached to one to demonstrate that, when it detected my heart output, it didn't do anything. However if a person does have abnormal electrical activity, the AED will react to that and make the decisions as necessary. In this case, trust the computer..

 

And while training is great and very recommended, it isn't necessary. Between the instructions given by the 999 call handler and the AED machine itself, an untrained person can assist in resuscitation and greatly improve the chances of saving a life

 

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Avatar for - Monarch butterfly

iI have seen defibrillators in stations and also on the street in Twickenham.  I do not know how to use them and would like to learn - also would like to learn more about how to give first aid in general.  I think that this initiative is a...

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iI have seen defibrillators in stations and also on the street in Twickenham.  I do not know how to use them and would like to learn - also would like to learn more about how to give first aid in general.  I think that this initiative is a very good idea.

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