Drones
What do you think of drones being used in London? Would you support them being used more, why or why not?
Drones are aircraft without a human pilot on board. They have been used by public services in London for several years now. The Metropolitan Police Service is using them to support a range of operational activity, they were used to inspect tunnels and construction sites during Crossrail construction and the London Fire Brigade is currently trialling them when responding to incidents. They are also increasingly being used by private operators, for example to take film and TV footage or surveying.
Drones may become a more familiar sight in London in the next decade, and could be used for deliveries of post or emergency medical supplies, or even as a mode of transport.
However, some people have identified possible issues with more drone use, such as noise, safety, a loss of privacy or other environmental impacts.
Who would you want to call in the event of a complaint, such as drone noise or privacy concerns? And what are your thoughts on the next generation of urban air mobility, for instance 'flying' parcel delivery or even passenger services using small electric helicopters? Would you ever consider riding one, why or why not?
Tell us in our discussion below.
Summary
Thanks to everyone who joined in our discussion on drones. We’ve seen nearly 250 comments and have shared them with our colleagues in the Transport Team at City Hall and at Transport for London (TfL).
These are the main themes in the discussion on drones so far:
- You’re concerned about noise, privacy issues and crime.
- Many of you think that drones should be licensed.
- You seem in favour of the use of drones for emergency services.
- Some of you fear that drones might replace humans, and cause a loss of jobs.
Our policy teams would love to hear more of your views and have a few more questions. We have updated the discussion and look forward to hearing more of what you think.
The discussion ran from 20 May 2019 - 12 September 2019
Closed
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Log into your accountphilipherlihy
Community Member 6 years agoSeems to me that whatever policy is, there should be a requirement for registration/licensing, and the devices should "squawk" their identity as aircraft do. With the nearing roll-out of 5g mobile that should be easy enough to implement.
Show full comment...
Seems to me that whatever policy is, there should be a requirement for registration/licensing, and the devices should "squawk" their identity as aircraft do. With the nearing roll-out of 5g mobile that should be easy enough to implement.
I'd suggest there should also be a requirement that all new drones should respond to a "stop" signal available to police which intiates a controlled descent and landing.
Show less of commentHSG
Community Member 6 years agoPlease please do not add to the already noisy skies by allowing drones to fly anywhere over London. London is a city that is never peaceful and drones are loud, disruptive visually and intrusive.
The London police force is under pressure...
Show full commentPlease please do not add to the already noisy skies by allowing drones to fly anywhere over London. London is a city that is never peaceful and drones are loud, disruptive visually and intrusive.
The London police force is under pressure and is unable to cope at present with many issues due to lack of funds and staff. Who would police the skies and ensure drones have no cameras on board, that their noise levels are those set by law, that they fly the least invasive routes. And would these routes be along people's back gardens destroying whatever privacy is left to us living as we do in a highly populated city.
I do not want Amazon or any other company to use drones to deliver parcels in London. Public transport is good and Amazon uses shops that open late to allow people to collect their parcels easily. It is a noisy solution for such deliveries in such a well connected city. And if the parcel cannot be delivered will the drone leave a message to say where the parcel was delivered ie with a neighbour as happens now. I think not.
NO DRONES AT ALL over London skies is my view unless they are used where NO other solution can be found.
Show less of commentAngieZZ
Community Member 6 years agoThey are like ginormous mosquitoes. I would not want one to land on my head. Nor do I like to go to a lovely nature park and see/hear them flying overhead. I think they should not be allowed to be used in residential areas or nature...
Show full commentThey are like ginormous mosquitoes. I would not want one to land on my head. Nor do I like to go to a lovely nature park and see/hear them flying overhead. I think they should not be allowed to be used in residential areas or nature reserves. Keep them for the limited professional uses, not deliving everyone's Amazon parcels.
Show less of commentinnanovikova
Community Member 6 years agoThe use of drones in London should be permitted but strictly regulated as there are so many sesitive areas in London. Deliveries by drones could be a partial solution to cope with congested traffic. They need to be registered and licensed...
Show full commentThe use of drones in London should be permitted but strictly regulated as there are so many sesitive areas in London. Deliveries by drones could be a partial solution to cope with congested traffic. They need to be registered and licensed and monitored. Privacy, terrorism are only two sensitive areas to be looked into.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 6 years agoYes they will be used for deliveries of post and emergency medical supplies and groceries and everyday purchases from Amazon. And one day even be a mode of transport. Only a ludite would say that drones will not become an everyday item. BUT...
Show full commentYes they will be used for deliveries of post and emergency medical supplies and groceries and everyday purchases from Amazon. And one day even be a mode of transport. Only a ludite would say that drones will not become an everyday item. BUT, currently the drones available to the likes of you or I should be registered, IF the drone we are using has 'long distance and X height' capability. And that distance/height and type of registration needs to be determined by the major players in manufacturing, along side safety experts (preferably from the aviation industry.
For heavans sake don't let the EU get involved.
Small drones, restricted to your back garden or a local field, for young people (I feel) should not be registered. Young people having fun with their parents at hand will become the future 'professional' operators in what WILL become a huge industry.
Like America we are fast becoming a litigious society and, for professional operators, indemnity insurance is a must.
Show less of commentlivehere
Community Member 6 years agoGreat swathes of London would become simply uninhabitable if drones use for deliveries and other commercial purposes is permittted. And as for those young people - the parents are rarely at hand (probably at work) and the small drones are...
Show full commentGreat swathes of London would become simply uninhabitable if drones use for deliveries and other commercial purposes is permittted. And as for those young people - the parents are rarely at hand (probably at work) and the small drones are a menace. Society does not have to simply go limp and witless in the face of new technology. There is no inevitability here. We can and should take charge of the direction of technological advances. We can say No. And we should say no. There are many grounds for saying No, including the impact on human health, the dramatic increase in terrorism risks, and the effects on wildlife. Trying to manage instead of banning is not the answer here.
Show less of commentwiggins
Community Member 6 years agoI dont really know much about drones but I think there needs to be more awareness of the dangers posed by drones by those who are flying them; there needs to be better regulations for all things drone and should definitely not be allowed to...
Show full commentI dont really know much about drones but I think there needs to be more awareness of the dangers posed by drones by those who are flying them; there needs to be better regulations for all things drone and should definitely not be allowed to be flown in built up urban areas
Show less of commentJohn Budd
Community Member 6 years agoBan all private use drones
Show full commentBan all private use drones
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 6 years agoI think drones show tremendous promise, but we may need to consider rationing their use to mitigate the risks that come with increased drone activity, especially collision risks (involving both people and drones) and noise/visual pollution...
Show full commentI think drones show tremendous promise, but we may need to consider rationing their use to mitigate the risks that come with increased drone activity, especially collision risks (involving both people and drones) and noise/visual pollution.
I have a few suggestions, and note they may have been raised already:
- Each drone should be registered with a unique ID tied to their purchaser;
Show less of comment- Use in heavily-populated areas (let's be honest - that's most of London) should be heavily regulated to allay concerns around noise, privacy/surveillance and collisions; and
- It should be easy to raise complaints and have them verified by tying the location and time of the complaint to the drones in the immediate area surrounding the complainant (if such a thing is technologically possible). I feel the burden should be on drone users to justify their use in large densely-populated cities - emergencies are fine, but I lean towards a heavy-handed approach to joyrides.
livehere
Community Member 6 years agoThere is no way to regulate drone use to allay concerns around noise. The noise they make is horrific and health-damaging. The UK simply lacks the money and resources to monitor and police drone use and abuse. Right now local councils are...
Show full commentThere is no way to regulate drone use to allay concerns around noise. The noise they make is horrific and health-damaging. The UK simply lacks the money and resources to monitor and police drone use and abuse. Right now local councils are losing the battle against noise nuisance and noise pollution because the legislation is inadequate and they do not have the money to pay for enough staff to deal with noise nuisance. The police have no intention of being involved in the day to day work of dealing with antisocial behaviour involving noise, or in using their powers to support council officials in enforcement of pollution and environmental protection laws. They just don't have the money or staff to do so. Forget managing, forget allowing drone deliveries with regulation - there is no money and no-one to enforce any of it. Pointless. Just ban them.
Show less of commentonslow12
Community Member 6 years agoAnyone wish to fly these should take a course and be licensed
Show full commentAnyone wish to fly these should take a course and be licensed
Show less of commentTony Pattison
Community Member 6 years agoIf drones are used for official purposes such as police or rescue organisations that's ok but private use should be severely limited
Show full commentIf drones are used for official purposes such as police or rescue organisations that's ok but private use should be severely limited
Show less of commentPeteH
Community Member 6 years agoIf not used properly, drones are potentially as dangerous as badly driven motor vehicles!
As such, drones should NOT be generally available for use by the general public.
There are occasions when drones may be of use, but these must be...
Show full commentIf not used properly, drones are potentially as dangerous as badly driven motor vehicles!
As such, drones should NOT be generally available for use by the general public.
There are occasions when drones may be of use, but these must be strictly controlled. As a general rule, drones should only be used when there is no other way of achieving the required outcome. As such, they should NOT be used for general deliveries. No Amazons or Deliveroos or general parcel or letter deliveries for example!
The main uses I would envisage for drones would include the delivery of emergency medical supplies, for essential police and security surveillance in respect of crime prevention or investigation, aerial filming for TV or film production, archeological and historical research, or in providing aerial shots for planning architectural purposes.
All drones being used should be properly licenced and registered (perhaps paying a fee), and every drone operation should be properly authorised - an appropriate regulatory body would need to be established in order to carry out this authorisation function. In respect of police and security surveillance, authorisation may need to be part of the judicial process (i.e. akin to warrants). Suffice to say, an operation may be refused by the authorising authority.
In all cases, the drone operator would need to complete a risk assessement prior to any operation.
The authorising authority should also be available for public complaints in respect of drone use, and could have the power to revoke an operating licence.
I would also expect that any drone operator would have to be covered by third party liability insurance in case of a drone causing damage to property or injury to an individual.
It may also be appropriate for anyone operating a drone to have undertaken a training course.
THAT'S IT - SORRY FOR DRONING ON!
Show less of commenttalk_london_us…
Community Member 6 years agoThe only private uses for drones in London are snooping and drug delivery. Ban private ownership.
Show full commentThe only private uses for drones in London are snooping and drug delivery. Ban private ownership.
Show less of commentJade D
Community Member 6 years agoIt seems many here are in agreement. Emergency services, special projects (building inspections etc) and one-off surveys for the public domain all seem acceptable by most. There is also a sizeable minority of hobbyists who would like...
Show full commentIt seems many here are in agreement. Emergency services, special projects (building inspections etc) and one-off surveys for the public domain all seem acceptable by most. There is also a sizeable minority of hobbyists who would like somewhere to do their thing.
The issues against the use of drones which need taking into account are noise pollution, invasion of privacy, and illegal activities (drug deliveries etc).
I was at a private wedding celebration where a drone ‘shadowed’ the whole procession, coming in very low and generally being noisy and invasive. It was very unpleasant, also upsetting for the bridal couple & family, who had employed fabulous musicians to accompany them, only to be drowned out by engine noise. It made me wonder what the legal position would be if someone ‘downed’ it, or disabled it.....
as a London resident, I would only be supportive of their general use if they were INSTEAD of helicopters, which are terrifically noisy, and hang around more than planes do.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 6 years agoLots of good ideas here. I agree licencing would be beneficial - not just for the devices, but for the owners and pilots to ensure responsible use.
I have concerns about unregulated commercial use being dangerous to known aircraft routes...
Show full commentLots of good ideas here. I agree licencing would be beneficial - not just for the devices, but for the owners and pilots to ensure responsible use.
I have concerns about unregulated commercial use being dangerous to known aircraft routes (at height), and pedestrians and other vehicles (low to ground) as well as overhead cables (e.g. telephone lines).
The use of drones for automated delivery of transplant organs or similar seems a very good idea, especially in areas of traffic congestion and given hospitals don't tend to move about, safe routes/flight plans could be established and filed in advance.
The use of drones for delivery of the weekly shop seems like a cheap way to put a lot of delivery drivers out of work. If this were desirable, it might be safer to do short-hop delivery, e.g. for the housebound from a local hub site such as an existing shop or goods distribution centre.
Hobbyist use of this technology could be contentious especially by amateur and even professional photographers where there are privacy concerns. I can well imagine misuse of this technology by peeping toms, or for stalking, and legislation would have to keep up with technology developments to ensure viable means of interception, prosecution and confiscation. Those with convictions for misuse might need to undergo an approvals process if purchasing models above a domestic use specification.
Maintenance of drones would be paramount - perhaps a service schedule and periodic MOT to ensure devices were fit to fly?
Surveillance use of this technology by law enforcement bothers me less as the capital is already covered in cameras and the use of drones (at least at low levels) is probably more obvious than some covert surveillance techniques that already exist. We might need notices in less obvious areas to ensure people are aware of it - like CCTV.
Show less of commentlivehere
Community Member 6 years agoA delivery van carries loads of parcels. A delivery drone carries one or two. How many roaring drones will be needed to replace one delivery van? Delivery vans can run on electricity or lpg. Quietly. What do drones run on? How many...
Show full commentA delivery van carries loads of parcels. A delivery drone carries one or two. How many roaring drones will be needed to replace one delivery van? Delivery vans can run on electricity or lpg. Quietly. What do drones run on? How many thousands of noisy drones do you want outside your windows people?
Show less of commentMartin Cox
Community Member 6 years agoI think drones in London and elsewhere should be licensed and strictly regulated. The potential noise nuisance is immense. Helicopters are already a nuisance as well as planes. They should certainly not be allowed for private deliveries...
Show full commentI think drones in London and elsewhere should be licensed and strictly regulated. The potential noise nuisance is immense. Helicopters are already a nuisance as well as planes. They should certainly not be allowed for private deliveries. Any use should have to demonstrate a clear public benefit for all.
Show less of commentRobThreadgold
Community Member 6 years agoOne word: Gatwick!!
I agree with Mike and Ben. Have we not already got way too much surveilance/spying going on. Noise? How many Londoners surveyed would say 'yes' to be able to hear aircraft over their home? More money spent on...
Show full commentOne word: Gatwick!!
I agree with Mike and Ben. Have we not already got way too much surveilance/spying going on. Noise? How many Londoners surveyed would say 'yes' to be able to hear aircraft over their home? More money spent on bobby's on the ground would help with employment, social interaction and community liaison let alone reducing crime rate and making people feel more secure. Aside from this, I am very much into the environment/conservation. What are the impacts to birdlife?
I'm all for conscientious development but I think there is a need to tread carefully. How much research has been done on this so far? Have thee been any discussion groups, public consultation or forums on this issue to date?
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Show less of commentlivehere
Community Member 6 years agoThe CAA has been consulting - but not asking the general public I think.
Show full commentThe CAA has been consulting - but not asking the general public I think.
Show less of commentwells
Community Member 6 years agoOK for emergency services but in densely populated areas like London very strict regulation essential.
Show full commentOK for emergency services but in densely populated areas like London very strict regulation essential.
Show less of commentcaryl
Community Member 6 years agoIn addition to my other comments, I also agree with Mike Solomons below.
Show full commentIn addition to my other comments, I also agree with Mike Solomons below.
Show less of commentcaryl
Community Member 6 years agoPROS
For security forces and police operational reasons. Also for fire brigade and live traffic monitoring.
CONS
Huge invasion of privacy, terrorism threat, not acceptable for use by private individuals. Nor companies beyond the...
Show full commentPROS
For security forces and police operational reasons. Also for fire brigade and live traffic monitoring.
CONS
Huge invasion of privacy, terrorism threat, not acceptable for use by private individuals. Nor companies beyond the above which includes film companies, delivery companies etc. Would accept them being used for building surveys, provided their flight and photos were limited strictly to the site in question, and did not "bleed" over into neighbouring properties.
Show less of commentAnonymous
Community Member 6 years agoI am against them being used for commercial or personal use. Otherwise for emergencies and authorised public services have no objection provided they are "policed" properly.
Show full commentI am against them being used for commercial or personal use. Otherwise for emergencies and authorised public services have no objection provided they are "policed" properly.
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