Drones

What do you think of drones being used in London? Would you support them being used more, why or why not?

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Drones are aircraft without a human pilot on board. They have been used by public services in London for several years now. The Metropolitan Police Service is using them to support a range of operational activity, they were used to inspect tunnels and construction sites during Crossrail construction and the London Fire Brigade is currently trialling them when responding to incidents. They are also increasingly being used by private operators, for example to take film and TV footage or surveying.

Drones may become a more familiar sight in London in the next decade, and could be used for deliveries of post or emergency medical supplies, or even as a mode of transport.

However, some people have identified possible issues with more drone use, such as noise, safety, a loss of privacy or other environmental impacts.

Who would you want to call in the event of a complaint, such as drone noise or privacy concerns? And what are your thoughts on the next generation of urban air mobility, for instance 'flying' parcel delivery or even passenger services using small electric helicopters? Would you ever consider riding one, why or why not?

Tell us in our discussion below.

Summary

Thanks to everyone who joined in our discussion on drones. We’ve seen nearly 250 comments and have shared them with our colleagues in the Transport Team at City Hall and at Transport for London (TfL).

These are the main themes in the discussion on drones so far:

  • You’re concerned about noise, privacy issues and crime.
  • Many of you think that drones should be licensed.
  • You seem in favour of the use of drones for emergency services.
  • Some of you fear that drones might replace humans, and cause a loss of jobs.

Our policy teams would love to hear more of your views and have a few more questions. We have updated the discussion and look forward to hearing more of what you think.

The discussion ran from 20 May 2019 - 12 September 2019

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Comments (350)

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Terrible idea. Very intrusive. People are entitled to privacy!

Avatar for - Sumatran elephant
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Drones. Awful. Particularly in the hands of companies and private individuals. Noise pollution and privacy. I'd be happy to practice knocking them out of the sky with an air-rifle......but that can't be the solution.....

 

Avatar for - Tiger
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Most of the comments on here seam to be coming from people with no knowledge of drone rules.

 what need to happen now that the Drone and model aircraft registration and education service (DMARES) is here retailers should gave access to the...

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Most of the comments on here seam to be coming from people with no knowledge of drone rules.

 what need to happen now that the Drone and model aircraft registration and education service (DMARES) is here retailers should gave access to the DMARES to confirm that someone has the basic training and understanding of drone safety and that they have a FLYER number and an operator ID .

The locations you can fly in London in very Limited due to Flight Restriction Zone and the London CTR. Richmond Park has the only drone zone where you can fly as a member od the public in London.  regarding this I think we should adopt the FAA's Low Altitude Authorization and Notification Capability  where drone pilots have to get permission before flight

 

I think drones should be kept out of the hands of companies that wish to put them to use as delivery equipment.

 

to the few who have stated about drones falling out of the I would rather a drone hit me than a aeroplane  

 

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Avatar for - Tiger
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Drones, in the hands of idiots, children, criminals, terrorists etc (quite apart from voyeurs and perverts) have the potential of doing the most terrible damage to property and of course, loss of life. A drone CAN bring down an aircraft.

I...

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Drones, in the hands of idiots, children, criminals, terrorists etc (quite apart from voyeurs and perverts) have the potential of doing the most terrible damage to property and of course, loss of life. A drone CAN bring down an aircraft.

It is not the first time the few ruin everything for the majority, but sadly, that is the world we live in. We have no choice but to ban them from general use unless and until we have more infallible remote control on where they can fly and who flies them.

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People think that drones are toys, but they are all classified as  aircraft. There is no minimum size for an aircraft although there are different licensing requirements for different sizes, powers etc. It is necessary to have controls on...

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People think that drones are toys, but they are all classified as  aircraft. There is no minimum size for an aircraft although there are different licensing requirements for different sizes, powers etc. It is necessary to have controls on drones. You only have to go on YouTube to see the idiotic things people do with them. They are a menace to larger people carrying aircraft besides the invasion of privacy side.

I believe that drones will be useful to the likes of the police and fire and rescue, but assume that the operators will be fully trained and will also be able through their normal commas be able to talk to air traffic control if necessary. I would not wish to hinder this.

There are also a range of valid commercial uses, however I see these as being potentially nice rather than essential. I see deliveries as being 'froth' unlikely to become a reality for a range of reasons not least among which is cost, airspace conflict, noise and lack of acceptance by the population at large.
 

They would be useful for surveying large areas or for big projects. These would be fairly limited and probably within a reasonably prescribed area and carried out by a trained operative. 
London is a densely populated area. There are many advantages to living in London, but due to its density flying drones is one of the things that has to be limited. 
 

People are misguided if they see it as their right to fly drones wherever they want. When you live in a society as large and complex as London you have to limit some rights to protect the higher rights of things like safety, privacy etc of all.

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Hi JohnMichael, you make some good points regarding delivery drones. I edit a transport magazine and looking for someone to argue against delivery drones. Would you like to take part? thanks Mike 01892 524455

Avatar for - Monarch butterfly
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Just microchip the whole of the human race with details as to all their hobbies, interests, birth and employment details - not forgetting what they had for breakfast each day and when they used the toilet.     

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It is not a licence it is a tax, you pay £9 to say you own one that is not a licence, if I buy a TV the company will not sell you one until you give them your name and address so they know where to send the bill for the TV licence, what...

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It is not a licence it is a tax, you pay £9 to say you own one that is not a licence, if I buy a TV the company will not sell you one until you give them your name and address so they know where to send the bill for the TV licence, what needs to happen there needs to be some where that someone teaches you how to use one this can easily be done locally in a school hall and in a park pass a theory and a handling of it and a one off £9 licence is all that is needed not an annual £9 tax  

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I sm pleased that there is finally regulation on drones - albeit only  25g to 20kg. . I take it that heavier drones will be subject to other regulation  

This new regulation may affect the sale of drones to young people but is that a bad...

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I sm pleased that there is finally regulation on drones - albeit only  25g to 20kg. . I take it that heavier drones will be subject to other regulation  

This new regulation may affect the sale of drones to young people but is that a bad thing?  At least in being required to register and to pay those using them ( young or old) will be instilled with a sense of responsibility. 
 

I have read the guidance; it is not clear on how the regulations are to be enforced.  I would interested to learn how this will be avhieved. 

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Given that 'invasive' drones are often being operated by someone who is out of sight, I don't see how any regulations can be properly policed unless the drones can be downed by using hacking equipment. Drones are dangerous, the general...

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Given that 'invasive' drones are often being operated by someone who is out of sight, I don't see how any regulations can be properly policed unless the drones can be downed by using hacking equipment. Drones are dangerous, the general public should absolutely not be allowed to use them. The noise nuisance factor is not being recognised by anyone.

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It is curious how few people here recognise drones as a safety hazard.

Irresponsible drone flying is an accident waiting to happen. I have seen parents with children letting them (illegally) fly drones within metres of main roads with no...

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It is curious how few people here recognise drones as a safety hazard.

Irresponsible drone flying is an accident waiting to happen. I have seen parents with children letting them (illegally) fly drones within metres of main roads with no understanding of the potential to cause an accident if the drone veers across the sightline of a vehicle driver.

Similarly a drone dropping out of the sky onto a person (loss of power), or a drone flying into somebody (poor operator control, or loss of the control link) are both painful experiences, if not worse, for the innocent bystander.

Drone flying has to be restricted, and must involve training, responsibility and registration.

 

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No issue with needing to mark a drone with an ID and have a register. Ideally do it when purchasing and add a sensible charge - £2? - to the purchase cost. Better still put an RDIF chip in each drone which can be interrogated from the...

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No issue with needing to mark a drone with an ID and have a register. Ideally do it when purchasing and add a sensible charge - £2? - to the purchase cost. Better still put an RDIF chip in each drone which can be interrogated from the ground - a maximum of 450 feet if overhead

BUT typical HMG

You have to register TWICE - once as an operator and once as a flyer. If a child is using a drone, even under supervision, he or she must pass an online test and pay £9

Children wont do it. Uptake will be low, certainly until some poor sole is made an example of in the courts. And unless you catch the drone it makes no difference - airproxes with planes inbound to Heathrow will not be prevented

So FAIL

 

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Hi everyone

The Civil Aviation Authority has just introduced new requirements for both operating and flying a drone. These become law on 30 November 2019.

Anyone responsible for a drone or unmanned aircraft weighing between 250g and 20kg will need to register as an operator.  The cost for this will be £9 per year. Each drone must be labelled with the operator ID. Anyone flying a drone or unmanned aircraft weighing between 250g and 20kg will need to pass an online theory test to obtain a flyer ID. This is free and renewable every three years.

You can find out more on the website https://dronesafe.uk/registration/ 

The rules and regulations for flying small unmanned aircraft and the Drone and Model Aircraft Code must be followed. The Code was published in October 2019. It sets out how to fly safely and responsibly, and contains a section dedicated to protecting people's privacy. These provisions were introduced in The Air Navigation (Amendment) Order 2018: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/623/made

What do you think of these new requirements?

Talk London

 

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I feel that companies such as DJI and GoPro should manufacture drones without cameras, in my opinion camera is the feature to blame for all the strict regulations surrounding drones and its operation within the city. 

Maybe in big parks...

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I feel that companies such as DJI and GoPro should manufacture drones without cameras, in my opinion camera is the feature to blame for all the strict regulations surrounding drones and its operation within the city. 

Maybe in big parks like Hyde Park, Regents park and Green park there can be Drone flight zones where it would be safe to use the drones without the cameras for noncommercial users. In such a way the privacy of people nearby would not be affected. Moreover, there can be a senior drone operator at the flight zone who would be checking if the drone has a camera and if the user has an appropriate license to operate it. 

The licenses to operate non-commercial drones should have the fast course (1-2 days) for drones without cameras.

I enjoyed operating a drone (gopro Karma) but I had to sell mine because there is no place to operate it within London, except Richmond Park which has the drone flight zone but is miles away from where I live. 

We should welcome drones in London not be scared of them and keep restricting their use. I feel the same about the electric scooters, which should have some sort of CBT (compulsory basic training) before they can be driven. Proper training fo both drones and scooters would only have a positive impact but until there is no allotted place for safe operations noone would be interested in flying drones legally and in safe manner.

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Avatar for - Vaquita
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Sure drones can be useful for the emergency services, but as for commercial enterprises why do we need to pollute our environment any more? That is visually as well as noise and air.

I think the learnings from the public consultation about...

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Sure drones can be useful for the emergency services, but as for commercial enterprises why do we need to pollute our environment any more? That is visually as well as noise and air.

I think the learnings from the public consultation about the use of mopeds for collecting and delivering fast food would be a good starting point for the use of drones commercially. It is as much about how you undertake your research/consultation as it is about the subject, What were the key learnings from that consultation on moped collections/deliveries? Why are some residential neighborhoods now more polluted with noise and exhaust from such business operations? Was the research/consultation carried our effectively? Who do we call about this pollution? Why not have the same process for drone nuisances?

One of the issues we face today is that government at all levels is reactive, instead of leading the way to a fairer, more considerate and environmentally sustainable society. Instead of consulting on 'drones' for instance why doesn't the London Assembly consult on how to create a fairer London for residents? Then maybe it won't be so hard to manage these socalled 'disrupters'.

Develop a bit of a plan and let's take it from there.

 

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Sorry to be late for the discussion, but I though I'd share my opinion.

Drones are a bit of an eye sore, a hazzard if not used properly and largely seen as a rich kid's toy.

If they're used for deliveries or for emergency services (though...

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Sorry to be late for the discussion, but I though I'd share my opinion.

Drones are a bit of an eye sore, a hazzard if not used properly and largely seen as a rich kid's toy.

If they're used for deliveries or for emergency services (though don't see how they could replace an ambulance, maybe as a police chase vehicle?); this could potentially be helpful, but would reduce jobs for humans who currently do them. I guess that's the future anyway, but for now, that's my opinion.

I've seen some people using them in places like Richmond park to explore the sites and to take aerial photography. This is kind of cool, from a photography perspective, but again it could be used wrongly (ie spying on private property with little to no chance of apprehension and reprimand for the user) and also further expands the rich kid's myth.

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I think the issue is that in today's world, we are veering towards a society that doesn't provide individuals with privacy under the guise of alleged 'protection.'

This would not be an issue if there were policies/ schemes in place...

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I think the issue is that in today's world, we are veering towards a society that doesn't provide individuals with privacy under the guise of alleged 'protection.'

This would not be an issue if there were policies/ schemes in place designed to improve communities' trust with the government and police, especially when it comes to various ethnic groups and minorities, which have undergone a lot of racial prejudice and discrimination that has yet to be addressed on a national scale. 

Personally, I believe the use of drones will just result in further incarceration/ arrest of people from BAME and low economic backgrounds, which does nothing to improve the conditions that they are living in which lead them to peruse a life of crime of other means. 

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Avatar for - Sumatran elephant
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Drones of a non military type should be available for use by the emergency services. All privately owned drones must be restricted in size and registered with a similar number plate used on vehicles using a public highway/footway/or other...

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Drones of a non military type should be available for use by the emergency services. All privately owned drones must be restricted in size and registered with a similar number plate used on vehicles using a public highway/footway/or other place where the public has access, on payment or otherwise. Delivery drones should have to follow laid down routes and these should be allocated by the Aviation Authorities. We cannot allow drones to be flown wherever the owner/operator decides. Unless suspected to be involved in crime a person should not be monitored or their premises recorded by drones. A warrant issued by a court must be obtained before such surveillance takes place. Drones used for map reading must be authorised for privacy and safety reasons. Those responsible for unauthorised use of a drone should be charged with a specified offence relating to drone use, with high penalties for those found guilty of endangering life or property, such as those using drones near airports etc.

I am not talking about the small toy drone. I agree with Microbe that the UK has more CCTV cameras than China, Russia and the USA. They do not bother me as I have nothing to fear of being pictured in a public area. I would however object if some idiot had his/her (nearly left out the her, the nutters out there would have said I was being sexist!!!) drone hovering over my house or my garden.

I know this all sounds Draconian but safety, privacy and being used in crime are all reasons why I take the stance I have. Those who think these measures would infringe their 'Human Rights'  I say, GET A LIFE for goodness sake and think of others for a change.

TerryM

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There are many comments arguing against drones because of 'invasion of privacy'. The UK is already one of the most spied upon nations with CCTV pointing at 'you' from at angles from all urban corners. Elsewhere, there are speed cameras...

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There are many comments arguing against drones because of 'invasion of privacy'. The UK is already one of the most spied upon nations with CCTV pointing at 'you' from at angles from all urban corners. Elsewhere, there are speed cameras every few yards on our roads, as well as 'electronic parking restrictive or No Stopping Here camera eyes' utilised essentially as accruing snide, sneaky capital for cash-strapped local authorities and opportunist private companies able to make a fast buck with 'catch 'em out and fine 'em laws'. Satellites way above our heads can spy on us not to mention algorithms that with our online, phone and card shopping use follow us along every minutiae of our day to day lives knowing where we are, who our friends are and what we buy. Really? A drone geek playing with their smart toy is going to upset you out of all proportion while you happen to be laying topless or potbelly wobbling in your back garden or on a sunroof? The phrase 'get a life' comes to mind I'm afraid.  

 

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Avatar for - Adelie penguin
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Drones are a wonderful piece of technology but in the wrong hands can cause loads of problems. I think drone use should be limited to licensed individuals with a business need. e.g. approved contractors, Roofing contractors, pest control...

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Drones are a wonderful piece of technology but in the wrong hands can cause loads of problems. I think drone use should be limited to licensed individuals with a business need. e.g. approved contractors, Roofing contractors, pest control, Local Authorities, Police. Drones should carry transponders so they can be identified by the Police and civil aviation authorities. Approved contractors could supply the needs of broadcasters and supply services to private individuals. Operators should be licensed and have to pass a test and be subject to similar penalties as drivers. General public use of drones in London should be banned.

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Who would you want to call in the event of a complaint, such as drone noise or privacy concerns? I have no idea, I suppose in the first instance Lambeth council noise department, though this does not seem quite the right place to complain...

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Who would you want to call in the event of a complaint, such as drone noise or privacy concerns? I have no idea, I suppose in the first instance Lambeth council noise department, though this does not seem quite the right place to complain for this type of thing. 

And what are your thoughts on the next generation of urban air mobility, for instance 'flying' parcel delivery or even passenger services using small electric helicopters? Flying postal delivery services are my specific dread; The frequency and bulk with which my neighbours currently receive parcels would mean a lot of drone noise .  Like another correspondent here I have seen small drones harrassing wildlife and small pets etc.  I really do not believe these things in the hands of commercial companies or private individuals in high usage situations  (which I think could be the case if this idea is sanctioned) can be suitably monitored and sanctions applied appropriately all the time.   In any case, why should the majority be harrassed by more buzzing noise, intrusions of privacy etc to please the minority?  This is not anti innovation - a standard tactic to shout down genuine concerns; innovations often have unintended consequences.

Would you ever consider riding one, why or why not?  You are joking aren't you?  Will they be able to fly at any height, or over any garden or be able to hover outside a child's bedroom window?  For gods sake No no no.  ok for use  by or for defined and regulated emergency services, possibly if carefully licensed for care services to elderly and those in need provided they follow some sort of defined route that could be monitored so they do not stray off piste.

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I agree that drones pose as a danger to civilians, violate people's privacy, affect wildlife and cause noise pollution. However, if heavily regulated, drones may benefit society in many ways, e.g. tackling crime and emergency. If used...

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I agree that drones pose as a danger to civilians, violate people's privacy, affect wildlife and cause noise pollution. However, if heavily regulated, drones may benefit society in many ways, e.g. tackling crime and emergency. If used, people should have a license for flying drones and there should be an exclusion zone around airports.

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I don't feel quite clear how drones affect wildlife (other than bird-strike, perhaps?