Drones

What do you think of drones being used in London? Would you support them being used more, why or why not?

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Drones are aircraft without a human pilot on board. They have been used by public services in London for several years now. The Metropolitan Police Service is using them to support a range of operational activity, they were used to inspect tunnels and construction sites during Crossrail construction and the London Fire Brigade is currently trialling them when responding to incidents. They are also increasingly being used by private operators, for example to take film and TV footage or surveying.

Drones may become a more familiar sight in London in the next decade, and could be used for deliveries of post or emergency medical supplies, or even as a mode of transport.

However, some people have identified possible issues with more drone use, such as noise, safety, a loss of privacy or other environmental impacts.

Who would you want to call in the event of a complaint, such as drone noise or privacy concerns? And what are your thoughts on the next generation of urban air mobility, for instance 'flying' parcel delivery or even passenger services using small electric helicopters? Would you ever consider riding one, why or why not?

Tell us in our discussion below.

Summary

Thanks to everyone who joined in our discussion on drones. We’ve seen nearly 250 comments and have shared them with our colleagues in the Transport Team at City Hall and at Transport for London (TfL).

These are the main themes in the discussion on drones so far:

  • You’re concerned about noise, privacy issues and crime.
  • Many of you think that drones should be licensed.
  • You seem in favour of the use of drones for emergency services.
  • Some of you fear that drones might replace humans, and cause a loss of jobs.

Our policy teams would love to hear more of your views and have a few more questions. We have updated the discussion and look forward to hearing more of what you think.

The discussion ran from 20 May 2019 - 12 September 2019

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Comments (347)

Avatar for - Orangutan

London is noisy enough without drones flying overhead. I am also concerned about privacy and for what means the surveillance will be used for. I find the amount of CCTV we use in the city bad enough without the threat of loss of privacy in...

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London is noisy enough without drones flying overhead. I am also concerned about privacy and for what means the surveillance will be used for. I find the amount of CCTV we use in the city bad enough without the threat of loss of privacy in and around one's house and street.

Fine for emergency services on a regulated basis but that's it. 

 

 

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Avatar for - Sumatran elephant

Drones are good for emergencies and inspections for various projects, however it's a bit worrying not knowing whom they belong to, and in the wrong hands can cause destruction.

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Drones are good for emergencies and inspections for various projects, however it's a bit worrying not knowing whom they belong to, and in the wrong hands can cause destruction.

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No, no drones at all, not even for emergency services.  They are a serious menace even now when there are relatively few of them in comparison to how many there would be if they were permitted in London, used for deliveries and etc.  It...

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No, no drones at all, not even for emergency services.  They are a serious menace even now when there are relatively few of them in comparison to how many there would be if they were permitted in London, used for deliveries and etc.  It is impossible to control their use currently, under the regs for model planes etc.  One major problem is the horrendous noise they make. Already this causes problems in gardens, in parks, in homes and for wildlife. Another is the fact that they are used for scaring people (zooming around after people), for spying into people's gardens and homes, and this is very hard to prevent. As for terrorism, at least if they were banned, then anyone hearing or seeing one would know it was being used illegally and maybe for terrorist purposes, and the police would be called. People have already been injured by drones. The more drones there arearound, the more there will be accidents with injuries, and the more they will be used deliberately as weapons to harm people.    No to drones. 

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Evidence. Most drones are very quiet and passing by at several hundred feet you would here almost nothing. 40 foot over your garden who be bloody annoying.

Used gor scaring people? I think you are confusing drones with thr dsily mail.

If...

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Evidence. Most drones are very quiet and passing by at several hundred feet you would here almost nothing. 40 foot over your garden who be bloody annoying.

Used gor scaring people? I think you are confusing drones with thr dsily mail.

If you call the police for a break in they will not come, so why you think they will come for a drone. There are thousamds out there already. Banning them is not going to happen.

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Scimitar55 -  delivery drones in London are going to be a lot closer than even 40 feet. And yes, there are people out there having fun by using their drone to repeatedly 'buzz' people.  Of course the police are not going to come out for a...

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Scimitar55 -  delivery drones in London are going to be a lot closer than even 40 feet. And yes, there are people out there having fun by using their drone to repeatedly 'buzz' people.  Of course the police are not going to come out for a drone - that is the problem. They can be regulated and licensed but there are no resources available for policing infringements and unlicensed use. License fees usually only cover the costs of issuing licenses. 

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The utility value of drones to emergency services and businesses needs to be balanced with the impact on those around the people benefiting from their use.  Many of the commenters seem happy with the use of drones by emergency services.  I...

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The utility value of drones to emergency services and businesses needs to be balanced with the impact on those around the people benefiting from their use.  Many of the commenters seem happy with the use of drones by emergency services.  I would be fine with their use in ways that help the emergency services do their jobs.  However when it comes to businesses offering services via drone I think there need to be a balanced view about the utility value compared to the impact on the people nearby.  During a recent trial of drone deliveries in Australia, nearby residents complained of the noise of drones delivering items like takeaway food over long hours every day.  I would hate to be forced to accept that constant drones flying past my house are unavoidable just because it's the shortest route for the drone to take to its destination.

Make sure that if drones are allowed, their impact on the people not benefiting from their use is considered and managed.

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Avatar for -

The laws protecting 'residential amenity' in the UK, and for preventing noise nuisance, are far too weak relative to commercial interests.  There would be no balance. The human right of being able to peacefully enjoy living in your home is...

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The laws protecting 'residential amenity' in the UK, and for preventing noise nuisance, are far too weak relative to commercial interests.  There would be no balance. The human right of being able to peacefully enjoy living in your home is not a priority compared to businesses' need to make profits.  So it is highly likely that during the day and up to 11pm at night deliveries drones will be allowed to make all the noise they want.  The WHO guidelines for noise regulations allow people to sleep from 11pm to 7am, and do not allow for any relaxation time. The WHO ignores children's needs for relaxation and more hours of sleep. 

Better, far better, to ensure drones are banned than to hope for any 'balance' between residents' needs and those of businesses. 

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Avatar for - Monarch butterfly

'Drone noise'? There is so much varied urban noise already urbanites have complained about to no avail. One only has to cite barking dogs, overflying aeroplanes (if one lives under a flight path as I do), urban traffic, living above a...

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'Drone noise'? There is so much varied urban noise already urbanites have complained about to no avail. One only has to cite barking dogs, overflying aeroplanes (if one lives under a flight path as I do), urban traffic, living above a nightclub, 'the person jabbering inside your head' if you're schizophrenic. So much uncontrollable noise. In the late 1700s a certain family reappointed the front of their North facing mansion to the back’s (reappointed) South face side. Why? The original house North frontage backed onto a public carriageway that was forever noisily rattling with passing horse-and-cart and horse-drawn coaches.

 

 

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Avatar for - Monarch butterfly

I think we have to be very careful about 'prejudice' against public use of 'domestic drones'. Depending on sophistication of mechanics, price, operational ability drones are toys or are clever innovative devices that enthusiasts in aerial...

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I think we have to be very careful about 'prejudice' against public use of 'domestic drones'. Depending on sophistication of mechanics, price, operational ability drones are toys or are clever innovative devices that enthusiasts in aerial photography or other recreational usage are able to own and safely use. Like any 'clever toy' they provide immense pleasure and recreation to a whole strata both young and old. ‘Recreational drones’ facilitate many to be out and about in the urban and wilder environs where operation of their personal ‘domestic drones’ affords healthy exercise in the open and ‘joy of their toy’. Of course, drone technology lends itself to lethal usage, as we know where the military is concerned. The same drone technology has potential for ‘disruption’ as we have seen in fairly recent news footage where airports have been affected. But, ‘illegal use’ of drones is easily manageable. I don’t own a drone. But, I see the potential for a great deal of innocent pleasure that commercial drones sold to the public can bring. YouTube has made me laugh at a particular ‘drone clip’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuDUb93mSqs

 

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Avatar for -

The illegal use of drones is not managable at all.

People do not need drones to get out into the 'fresh' air, into parks and similar areas.  

Each one person's 'innocent pleasure' is nightmare, health-damaging, noise nuisance to a bunch...

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The illegal use of drones is not managable at all.

People do not need drones to get out into the 'fresh' air, into parks and similar areas.  

Each one person's 'innocent pleasure' is nightmare, health-damaging, noise nuisance to a bunch of other people. 

And the terrorism risks are terrifying.

 

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Avatar for -

I would be very concerned about the widespread use of drones in ciies because of noise, intrusion, danger of abuse, accident. Is not the air space above anyone's property their own, at least up to a certain height, so that any drone flying...

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I would be very concerned about the widespread use of drones in ciies because of noise, intrusion, danger of abuse, accident. Is not the air space above anyone's property their own, at least up to a certain height, so that any drone flying into it would be a trespass? 

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Avatar for -

I don't think that drone should be used in the city by anybody other than the emergency services. How can a drone deliver to your door, do you leave a window open for it to fly into?

No they are too dangerous to be used as a convenience...

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I don't think that drone should be used in the city by anybody other than the emergency services. How can a drone deliver to your door, do you leave a window open for it to fly into?

No they are too dangerous to be used as a convenience, if you want to fly one get a licence and take it to the park

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The last thing we need in parks is noisy drones zooming around.  

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The last thing we need in parks is noisy drones zooming around.  

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Avatar for -

We recently attend a model plane and drone event.  Those who own these flying objects just enjoy their hobby just as anyone else enjoying a hobby.  I agree with licencing etc and that it is more of a positive than a negative to use new...

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We recently attend a model plane and drone event.  Those who own these flying objects just enjoy their hobby just as anyone else enjoying a hobby.  I agree with licencing etc and that it is more of a positive than a negative to use new technologies.  Anything, even software, can be used for illegal purposes and as for everything reasonable laws need to be implemented.  Please do allow for spaces where those who enjoy this hobby are able to do so.  There are so many open spaces in and around London which are not in a 'flight path' where drones can be used and they don't have to fly above a certain height (as per limitations included on the drone software).  Unfortunatley as mentioned there are those who will abuse but a registration database should be implemented.  Possibly importers or even those creating bespoke drones need to register the serial numbers of the drones by sending a list to the governing authority for drones.  Any retailer would be able to access the list and supply information on the purchaser of the drone.  Once again, one would need proof of identiy to register a drone as a further deterent (nothing is full proof).  Unfortunately, one cannot stop anyone for misuing drones but usually it is only the few, not the many and to implement over regulated restrictions will not prevent or resolve anyone with harmful intent.  I hope a proactive solution can be found to control drones for all who would gain benefit whether commercial, emergency, military or personal (hobby) use.

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Just because drone use can be a hobby does not mean it has to be permitted.  There are lots of hobbies that are not so dangerous and damaging.   On noise grounds alone all drones other than for vital emergency services use should be banned...

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Just because drone use can be a hobby does not mean it has to be permitted.  There are lots of hobbies that are not so dangerous and damaging.   On noise grounds alone all drones other than for vital emergency services use should be banned totally.  There are no spaces in or around London where the noise will not cause noise nuisance or seriously disturb what little wildlife we have left.   Regulation cannot be 'policed', so management is not a solution. 

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emergency services only. as well as dangers from accident, hacking or terrorism and security/privacy aspects, they are also noisy and intrusive

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emergency services only. as well as dangers from accident, hacking or terrorism and security/privacy aspects, they are also noisy and intrusive

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Avatar for -

More than happy for our first responders and special services to use them but recently had a privately owned drone flown outside my apartment window by a member of the public, this was disturbing and less than 10 meters from my balcony.  We...

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More than happy for our first responders and special services to use them but recently had a privately owned drone flown outside my apartment window by a member of the public, this was disturbing and less than 10 meters from my balcony.  We have seen an increase in the number of drones flown near our apartment as we are by the river and directly opposite City Airport. Many have cameras. 

I would like all drones and drone users to be registered and no fly zones to be enforced. 

 

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Avatar for - Rhino

There may be useful purposes, though I have doubts about some of those mooted, such as postal deliveries. And any deliveries by drone might be a gift to mischievous kids (or even adults). But then licence users, with strict regulations...

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There may be useful purposes, though I have doubts about some of those mooted, such as postal deliveries. And any deliveries by drone might be a gift to mischievous kids (or even adults). But then licence users, with strict regulations about how, where and when they can be used.

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Avatar for - Staghorn coral

Considering that we have had to rescue in a week a couple of drones from our garden (luckily didn't fall on top of the cherry tree!), I think they are a nuisance and they should be controlled.

Actually, having to bother to rescue them set...

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Considering that we have had to rescue in a week a couple of drones from our garden (luckily didn't fall on top of the cherry tree!), I think they are a nuisance and they should be controlled.

Actually, having to bother to rescue them set me off thinking: what about my privacy? Yes, why can't I sit in my garden, pretty cosy and secluded, but these people with drones can get to take pictures of me in the garden?

The whole issue, like with new technology, has us, humans, eager to try them. Look what happened with mobile phones. Great technological advance that benefits Humanity but, the dark side, addictions, higher rates of suicide among youngsters, etc etc. I think we haven't had a serious conversation about drones and what are the benefits and drawbacks of such technology. How to regulate them and implement the policies of privacy and security?

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I think it is a massive disregard for our privacy to be spied on by drones. I only know about it after being visited by the police looking for someone at my house who is unknown to me. Later on they sent a drone to spy further. Big brother...

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I think it is a massive disregard for our privacy to be spied on by drones. I only know about it after being visited by the police looking for someone at my house who is unknown to me. Later on they sent a drone to spy further. Big brother is already too extreme. 

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Thanks everyone for sharing your views in this discussion.

Some of you have mentioned concern about who can fly drones and what they might use them for, especially following disruption at Gatwick earlier this year. There are currently very few locations in London where drones can be flown without permission from the Civil Aviation Authority. Users can consult the Drone Code for more detail on their obligations.

From November, drones will have to be registered and display a registration number. The Met Police, TfL and British Transport Police are all working together to ensure that procedures are in place to protect Londoners from any threat posed by drones.

Talk London

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The Met police, TfL and BTP do not have the resources to protect Londoners from threats posed by drones.   This is crazy. They should be banned.   

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The Met police, TfL and BTP do not have the resources to protect Londoners from threats posed by drones.   This is crazy. They should be banned.   

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Avatar for -

With amateur owned drones, I would have concerns about safety - motor failure causing a drone to drop, and  misuse - e.g. problems at Gatwick when drones flew near airport.  In the event of an accident, how do police catch those responsible...

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With amateur owned drones, I would have concerns about safety - motor failure causing a drone to drop, and  misuse - e.g. problems at Gatwick when drones flew near airport.  In the event of an accident, how do police catch those responsible?

If delivery services start to use drones, there needs to be standards set re maintenance and pilot training.  HSW Act applies.

I expect emergency services use them already, but hopefully have well trained "pilots".  There could be concerns about surveillance, but I'd rather police caught terrorists by any means.  I'm more concerned about "amateur surveillance"  e.g. by Google.  Who gave them permission to photograph my house in detail? 

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The drone technology has its part to play in the betterment of human life but it is potentially dangerous and invasive.  Ownership and use must be strictly controlled.  I don't, for example, want to sit in park or on a beach with people...

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The drone technology has its part to play in the betterment of human life but it is potentially dangerous and invasive.  Ownership and use must be strictly controlled.  I don't, for example, want to sit in park or on a beach with people invading my privacy and maybe my health by flying drones over me.

The saying "My right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins" is ascribed to Abraham Lincoln, "The right to swing my arms in any direction ends where your nose begins" to John Stuart.  Both are founders of our great democratic tradition.  Each of us must have the right and freedom to live our lives as best we can without other people free to invade this personal freedom.  But technology introduces huge challenges to this freedom.  Drones invading our space, engines invading our health by spewing death into the air we breathe, vehicle exhausts hollowed out to invade our hearing with the din that only pleases the driver.....and so on 

We don't want dictators; but we do need our local governments to seek agreemnt to control these life damaging side-effects without reducing our societal ability to develop new life enhancing technology

 

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To add to my previous comment which wouldn't allow me to write the word 'p..aedophiles '. Drones will be very useful to p..aedophiles!! Hence ideally I'd like them banned other than for official uses.

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To add to my previous comment which wouldn't allow me to write the word 'p..aedophiles '. Drones will be very useful to p..aedophiles!! Hence ideally I'd like them banned other than for official uses.

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You are right, I agree with this.

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You are right, I agree with this.

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Completely agree with all reservations in this discussion.  Using drones is a terrible threat to our security - look what happened a couple of months ago at Gatwick Airport!  

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Completely agree with all reservations in this discussion.  Using drones is a terrible threat to our security - look what happened a couple of months ago at Gatwick Airport!  

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Not to mention the accidents that have already occurred - imagine the increase in injuries that will inevitably happen.

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Not to mention the accidents that have already occurred - imagine the increase in injuries that will inevitably happen.

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What accidents? Be specific use evidence.

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What accidents? Be specific use evidence.

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Avatar for - Rhino

Medical emergencies only. Anything further is an invitation to chaos, danger and an extension of the Surveillance State.

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Medical emergencies only. Anything further is an invitation to chaos, danger and an extension of the Surveillance State.

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I'm in favour of drones used by Authorities eg emergency services and police and army etc and professionals eg for industry/commercial/deliveries/ official aerial photography etc as long as they have training and an operator's licence. 

Bu...

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I'm in favour of drones used by Authorities eg emergency services and police and army etc and professionals eg for industry/commercial/deliveries/ official aerial photography etc as long as they have training and an operator's licence. 

But im against them used by the general public. They can be used by voyeurs, people spying on children or females etc, criminals and spying on neighbours etc. I've already had them buzzing overhead whilst I've been in the garden and it causes me distress, stress, anxiety and privacy concerns as i don't know who is operating them or what they are seeing and recording.  There needs to be very very strict laws of usage. My main objection is invasion of privacy.

They are also dangerous and could cause serious problems if irresponsibly used.  

This needs to be a two part discussion covering official and private use of drones. 

 

 

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