Brexit and moving London forward
London voted to stay in the European Union, but the country voted to leave. The coming months will bring the start of negotiations that will steer its way forwards through a ‘Brexit’ process and beyond.
Membership of the European Union meant access to the single market - meaning no trade restrictions or tariffs and free movement of services, goods and people between the UK and member countries. What follows could therefore shape future trade, establishment, investment and possibly civic life in general in the capital.
What do you think are the key issues for the capital through this negotiation process and beyond? What are the conditions needed for London to move forward with the UK no longer part of the European Union? How can we unite to build towards a strong future for the capital?
The discussion ran from 28 June 2016 - 28 September 2016
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Log into your accountJayDee46
Community Member 9 years agoInevitably, since this is a Talk London forum, the issues discussed are related to London but we still seem to be in our little bubble. The UK as a whole voted to Leave, and that may well be because they felt more of the pain and little of...
Show full commentInevitably, since this is a Talk London forum, the issues discussed are related to London but we still seem to be in our little bubble. The UK as a whole voted to Leave, and that may well be because they felt more of the pain and little of the gain in the last few years. So, far from uniting simply to build a strong future for the capital, we need to look for a strong future for UK as a whole. So I honestly think it is irrelevant for the Mayor to have a seat at the table. That risks giving the impression to the rest of the country that London is a special case.
I am also concerned about the rise in xenophobia since the referendum. We do need to address that wherever it arises.
Show less of commentNatasa
Community Member 9 years agoWell, you need to consider that more than 10% of people live in London so it is quite significant. And it also brings majority of the money. So it would be nice if London would be included into talks and have a say. But I absolutely agree...
Show full commentWell, you need to consider that more than 10% of people live in London so it is quite significant. And it also brings majority of the money. So it would be nice if London would be included into talks and have a say. But I absolutely agree that London should have spread their fortune to the rest of the UK and I hope this is now a good opportunity to do so.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoLast year it distributed £26Bn to the rest of the country or put another way, it paid the EU budget and gave the rest of the UK about £16Bn.
I think that is a good enough reason for London to have a considerable say in what happens.
Bayswater1
Community Member 9 years agoPerhaps a section of London – the City and/or Canary Wharf – could become a "Special EU Economic Zone", maybe the first of several in different countries. Here the current European Union legal provisions would apply, including the free...
Show full commentPerhaps a section of London – the City and/or Canary Wharf – could become a "Special EU Economic Zone", maybe the first of several in different countries. Here the current European Union legal provisions would apply, including the free movement of labour. No borders would be necessary but firms and individuals would need to be able to identify themselves to the UK, or England & Wales Authority, upon demand. Such an Identity might also work for Northern Ireland and Scotland, thus ensuring the future of a United Kingdom. Has the EU enough corporate imagination to create such entities? Have we enough grit to see it through?
Show less of commentStephen James
Community Member 9 years agoInteresting suggestion. There are similar such schemes around the world. In Dubai, for example, they have free trade zones such as "Media City", "Internet City", "International Financial Centre". The zones allow organisations within to...
Show full commentInteresting suggestion. There are similar such schemes around the world. In Dubai, for example, they have free trade zones such as "Media City", "Internet City", "International Financial Centre". The zones allow organisations within to trade under special rules with their own zone specific tax regime. Perhaps Something akin should be considered for London
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoYou really don't get the point do you? The majority chose to walk away from such failures. There is no need for any of this division. This is a time for coming closer and working together to regain our position as Great Britain. If you...
Show full commentYou really don't get the point do you? The majority chose to walk away from such failures. There is no need for any of this division. This is a time for coming closer and working together to regain our position as Great Britain. If you cannot do this, but want to continually sabotage the efforts of everyone else, and criticise whatever others are doing to improve Britain, and want to work within the EU, I think your best option is to pack up your home and move to Europe. If you can't be loyal to your country, then I don't think your country needs you.
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 9 years agoMorning all,
To pull out some strong themes from the discussion so far, lots of comment centres around London’s relationship with the rest of the UK, the economy and the free market and coming together and healing divisions – to build towards the strongest future possible.
Thinking about these things, how do you think we can ensure that London remains a successful, global city?
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoI think the "Londoners" pushing for a separated City, independent of the UK should stop thinking of themselves as some sort of elite club, which only 'they' are worthy of belonging to. and stop moaning about how 'they' have been affected...
Show full commentI think the "Londoners" pushing for a separated City, independent of the UK should stop thinking of themselves as some sort of elite club, which only 'they' are worthy of belonging to. and stop moaning about how 'they' have been affected. You go to work, as you have for quite a while, and you do your jobs. You may have to speak to a different person or two, but so what? You may have an important position within your establishment, but that doesn't make you any different from anyone else.
Show less of commentSTOP feeling like you've been disadvantaged, because you haven't. Get a positive attitude or move on.
Right now Britain doesn't need negativity, but support, so we can prosper.
No matter what work you do, do it happily, and the best way you can. Whether you make delicate electronics or sweep the streets, you and your job are important. Work with pride and you will feel better personally, your job will reflect the care you put into it, and that will flow on through your whole industry. When everyone feels they are making a positive contribution, they actually are, but for goodness sake - stop whingeing, do your job and we'll all succeed.
simon henson
Community Member 9 years agoI believe the debate post Brexit is cutting through the Referendum propaganda and Clause 50
should be resisted. Facts might not win elections as per Arron Banks/Leave but they don't go away.
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoShouldn't London just lobby parliament to vote against Brexit?
Show full commentSeems like most media haven't realised it still doesn't actually _have_ to happen at all.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vo…...
Shouldn't London just lobby parliament to vote against Brexit?
Show less of commentSeems like most media haven't realised it still doesn't actually _have_ to happen at all.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vo…
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-loophole-eu-refere…
livehere
Community Member 9 years agoAbsolutely yes. At the same time the Mayor has to try to safeguard London as much as possible. He has to act as if there is no chance of the government actually actually acting on the results of this advisory referendum.
Stephen James
Community Member 9 years agoIf you believe something to be wrong you don't have to simply accept, you change it using all the democratic levers you have within your grasp
mpcmurphy
Community Member 9 years agoMayor Khan should feed his views into the debate but any talk of demanding a seat at the table is just delusions of grandeur. London does not and should not get special privileges. The government is the government of the whole country....
Show full commentMayor Khan should feed his views into the debate but any talk of demanding a seat at the table is just delusions of grandeur. London does not and should not get special privileges. The government is the government of the whole country. Time for Bremainers to get real, you lost, the democratic decision is clear and any attempt to re-fight the campaign is pathetic.
Show less of commentdbt222
Community Member 9 years agoWe just have to put our backs and brains into a clear winner of a new industry , namely a sustainable eco friendly way to get our energy and transport organised and clean up our toxic air in our cities so that we can live to enjoy ourselves...
Show full commentWe just have to put our backs and brains into a clear winner of a new industry , namely a sustainable eco friendly way to get our energy and transport organised and clean up our toxic air in our cities so that we can live to enjoy ourselves rather then die of COPD heart attacks and asthma!
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoI live in hillingdon and the majority there, including myself, voted to leave the european union as we do not wish to live in a european superstate
frankly, i found khan's wish for a independant london state,staying within the EU to be...
Show full commentI live in hillingdon and the majority there, including myself, voted to leave the european union as we do not wish to live in a european superstate
frankly, i found khan's wish for a independant london state,staying within the EU to be laughable.
As khan intends to ban pictures of 'scantily clad' ladies on london transport, but allows buses to carry adverts, the full length of the side, promoting islam, he is blatently biased towards the muslim comunity and the sooner there is a new mayoral election the better, as i feel that these measures are the thin end of the wedge and there are probably more, equally biased measures in the pipeline.
Show less of commentabandon the segregated cycle lane scheme that takes up road-width - anyone near the tower of london can see the effect this is having on the free flow of traffic and the resultant congestion that these measures are causing.
LISA IRVINE
Community Member 9 years agoI'm really interested in the possibility of independently/ personally applying for for EU citizenship, just like you would apply to an individual country for citizenship, as what I value above all is the opportunity to easily live travel...
Show full commentI'm really interested in the possibility of independently/ personally applying for for EU citizenship, just like you would apply to an individual country for citizenship, as what I value above all is the opportunity to easily live travel and work in the EU.
It could be done via a system where you are granted citizenship on the merit of your application, like usual citizenship applications, but the citizenship would be slightly different given that it would be for citizenship of the entire EU. As so many of us voted REMAIN it is hardly fair that we are left abandoned and miserable, with so many opportunities stripped of us, thanks to those gullible enough to believe the utter fodder the LEAVE campaigned puked out.
Show less of commentarte1misia
Community Member 9 years agoFrom the first day the exit has been n economic disaster. The only possibility to don't march into a deeper recession is renogotiate wisely all the thing that before were granted. UK uas always played out and in the UE now people will bneed...
Show full commentFrom the first day the exit has been n economic disaster. The only possibility to don't march into a deeper recession is renogotiate wisely all the thing that before were granted. UK uas always played out and in the UE now people will bneed a passport and a visa to work in UK and same Britons abroad. Why this country demaged itself?
Show less of commentAnd all the racism I heard during the campaign it's disgusting . I was feeling better than home here but I'll bring my skills away asap. I'm really and deeply disappointed of what's this country is become.
livehere
Community Member 9 years agoYou are not the only one who is deeply disappointed. And I have nowhere to escape to. Not that Brits would be so welcome in the rest of the EU now, perhaps.
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoLondon has expressed its view. We want to stay in Europe, a place where we have a wide access to the world. It is not about if us as individuals benefit or not. It is about the opportunity for the future generations, stable world that does...
Show full commentLondon has expressed its view. We want to stay in Europe, a place where we have a wide access to the world. It is not about if us as individuals benefit or not. It is about the opportunity for the future generations, stable world that does not allow a small number of powerful nations to dictate the international politics, sharing the burden of economic inequality and human disasters, protecting the rights of working people and environment, and learning to co-habit with others without forcing cultural singularity. It is about time that Britain, and its citizens like ourselves, accept the responsibility to play a part. EU is inefficient? Sure, so we had a chance to change it while we were a part. The level of immigration not sustainable? But there are industries such as construction and agriculture that were dying until recent immigration from Eastern Europe. People move where economy is flourishing, and the Brits benefitted from that in the past. We cannot turn our back to the difficulties that others are going through. What happened to our decency and high moral to condemn racism? The result of the referendum is not an invitation to vent anger to the people who are socially already disadvantaged. The referendum has already brought to light our attitude to close our eyes and leave others to 'get on with it'. No, we must partake in change. And London should lead it.
Show less of commentMike at capita…
Community Member 9 years agoThe Mayor needs to take action to protect the interests of London's residents and businesses and address the negative affects of BREXIT. For example, by encouraging the new Government to reduce corporate taxation to a level that is more...
Show full commentThe Mayor needs to take action to protect the interests of London's residents and businesses and address the negative affects of BREXIT. For example, by encouraging the new Government to reduce corporate taxation to a level that is more than competitive with EU countries, and by putting in place action to support those people that voted for BREXIT - ie the low skilled and poorer parts of our communities. Action is required to provide this group with better skills and helping more of them to set up businesses so they can take advantage of the new business opportunities that BREXIT will generate.
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 9 years agoThanks all for your thoughts so far. There have been some really interesting comments on the conditions that are needed to move London forwards, and the current UK context.
We’d like to keep the focus of the discussion on the future, and the negotiations soon to begin.
How can we unite to create the best future possible?
Rosemary Mortimer
Community Member 9 years agoThank you for encouraging us to look ahead. It would be very helpful if Mayor Khan were to say definitively that Londoners should accept the decision of the electorate of the UK and not seek to overturn it. (He may already have done this in...
Show full commentThank you for encouraging us to look ahead. It would be very helpful if Mayor Khan were to say definitively that Londoners should accept the decision of the electorate of the UK and not seek to overturn it. (He may already have done this in which case I have missed it.) Wouldn't hurt to say it again. This would mean that we were all facing more or less in the same direction and it would be a good start.
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 9 years agoNo problem Rosemary! The Mayor says this in this press release from Friday. Hope that’s helpful.In terms of moving the discussion forwards, we’ve identified some strong themes in this thread including London’s relationship with the rest of the UK, the economy and the free market and civic life and healing divisions. With these things in mind, how would you say we can ensure that London moves forward successfully?
triciamf
Community Member 9 years agoIrish Finance Minister Michael Noonan claimed larger countries like France and Italy had been given flexibility after they had broken EU spending rules. "It's flexibility to avoid fines and sanctions. In other words you have to break the...
Show full commentIrish Finance Minister Michael Noonan claimed larger countries like France and Italy had been given flexibility after they had broken EU spending rules. "It's flexibility to avoid fines and sanctions. In other words you have to break the rules first, and then you get flexibility so that you're not sanctioned for breaking the rules," Mr Noonan said. "If you're in a model where you have to break the rules first, you can't plan an investment programme. So if any flexibility is built into the rules, it has to be ex-ante. There's no point in giving it at the end, unless you're a country like France which gives two-fingers to the rules anyway, and then goes away and makes their investment decisions."
On leaving the single market, Italian financial expert Paolo Barnard says: “There are 500 million potential European consumers that are in great trouble. While the UK, deregulated and outside the EU, has something like 2.2bn potential customers in emerging countries.”
Show less of commentlivehere
Community Member 9 years agoWe already have access to most of those customers, and many of the consumers there are on very low incomes relative to those in Western Europe, so it is a question of the value of those export markets.
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoI'd like to see pretty much business as usual so access to single market and free movement of labour. I want the UK to do more to help the refugee situation in Calais by letting them come over on a temporary basis. Exiting the EU doesn't...
Show full commentI'd like to see pretty much business as usual so access to single market and free movement of labour. I want the UK to do more to help the refugee situation in Calais by letting them come over on a temporary basis. Exiting the EU doesn't have to mean we're right-wing fascists or reverse globalisation. I want Westminster to prove that we can be progressive outside the EU with good policy making, strong leadership and being democratic.
Show less of commentRosemary Mortimer
Community Member 9 years agoIt's unlikely to be business as usual, whatever happens, although a degree of normalcy (whatever that is) would be welcome. And I don't think those who voted Leave would welcome refugees/economic migrants from Calais. We didn't allow them...
Show full commentIt's unlikely to be business as usual, whatever happens, although a degree of normalcy (whatever that is) would be welcome. And I don't think those who voted Leave would welcome refugees/economic migrants from Calais. We didn't allow them in before so why now? As I understand it, a major weak spot in our handling of migration is the 'disappearance' of migrants once they get in the country. We simply don't know who is here and how many.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoNo they wouldn't and? NHS isn't getting £350m a year either. Why now? Because the EU has done nothing to help them if not made it worse. Because that's what I want and no one asked me before. That's fine, vet all immigrants and refugees I...
Show full commentNo they wouldn't and? NHS isn't getting £350m a year either. Why now? Because the EU has done nothing to help them if not made it worse. Because that's what I want and no one asked me before. That's fine, vet all immigrants and refugees I don't want IS to come here (or anywhere) either. In terms of disappearance, more can be done to help them after they arrive and keeping in touch with them perhaps? I don't have the answers but being out of EU means we can decide.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoThe reporting that the take over of the London Stock Exchange by Deuche Borse (the German exchange based in Frankfurt) is good. Merkel has stated that she would never allow the clearing arrangements to be moved away from Germany so that is...
Show full commentThe reporting that the take over of the London Stock Exchange by Deuche Borse (the German exchange based in Frankfurt) is good. Merkel has stated that she would never allow the clearing arrangements to be moved away from Germany so that is a direct threat to London's position. We are talking £1.5 tn per day......................
Show less of commentMayor Kahn only managed to have a remain vote by appealing to the immigrants who voted in their own best interest. In a vote by the English and those of us who have a vested interest in ensuring that the UK remains at the forefront of world influence in our inventiveness and economy, there are major issues which should not be patronisingly swept away by the religious do-gooders. I cite; immigration - which should be controlled and in the UK national interest. Foreigners do not have a right to be here unless they bring a useful skill and it is with our prior agreement i.e. legal. Our laws and economy should be controlled in London. If we make a mess then at least we have ourselves to blame and not some unelected civil servant in Brussels or Germany. Those making the noise in the UK/EU debate conveniently forget history and the fact that we are the EUs biggest export market, we run a £100m per annum deficit with the EU, and we are the 5th largest economy. Do they really want a trade war? If they do then they will do it on our terms!
In the media coverage and debates over these last 6 months, Nigel Farage has been the most consistent and honest broker. Whether or not people here or abroad like him, they should be man enough to acknowledge that.
Juncker speaks for the EU in general and Germany in particular. He has never had the best interests of the UK at heart and that is unlikely to change.
The UK and London need a stable banking system. Depositor's money guaranteed 100% by the government but the banks trade or go bust on their own (lack of) initiative. The LSE needs protection from foreign take-over on the grounds of national interest and strategic common sense.
Immigration should be controlled so that illegal immigrants are immediately deported. Our borders protected and patrolled. If that includes Scotland due to Sturgeon then so be it. The French need to be diplomatically put in their place to keep trade routes (Dover/ Calais) open at all times as they are mandated to do. If they do not then we should enforce our right to free passage with military involvement if necessary.
Politicians on both sides have had most of 2016 to put their view for and against. The exaggerated and threatening campaign by remain failed and they should now accept that.
It should be acknowledged at national level that part of UK human rights is to be patriotic and to be proud of our nationhood. Those who do not accept that should use their right of passage to their country of origin
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoExactly the sort of racist comments that we have been told wasn't and isn't happening. I despair that extreme nationalism is getting in the way of a solution, we have a debt of £1.2Tn and advocating that we pull up the drawbridge and send...
Show full commentExactly the sort of racist comments that we have been told wasn't and isn't happening. I despair that extreme nationalism is getting in the way of a solution, we have a debt of £1.2Tn and advocating that we pull up the drawbridge and send in the navy is hardly going to help.
Show less of commentVery disappointing and no help to London at all, but then your handle says southport so perhaps you acknowledge how much you need London, cynically for the £26Bn maybe? The tail can never wag the dog, but it can be docked and in these days of genetic engineering probably live quite successfully, especially when it is such a big tail.
Stephen James
Community Member 9 years agoWith years of campaigning behind them the people of Scotland are significantly more experienced than the people of London in their endeavours for independence and independent collaboration with Europe. If London’s vision is the same, and it...
Show full commentWith years of campaigning behind them the people of Scotland are significantly more experienced than the people of London in their endeavours for independence and independent collaboration with Europe. If London’s vision is the same, and it probably is, then the natural conclusion is to collaborate with the Scottish Parliament. However, the strategic approach for addressing the underlying aims and objectives would differ on a range of issues - youth employment, small businesses and so forth. In recognising such differences London should collaborate at a strategic level on common ground, presenting a joint delegation to Europe offering the best of both Scotland and London, but then each be allowed to develop their own objectives where it is clear their priorities differ.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoStop complaining, accept the decision and just get on with it
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 9 years agoI could not be more European, but that is not defined by a deeply flawed, bureaucratic and corrupt organisation. Nearly all my Friends in Germany, Italy and France wish they too can have a referendum.
Show full commentI could not be more European, but that is not defined by a deeply flawed, bureaucratic and corrupt organisation. Nearly all my Friends in Germany, Italy and France wish they too can have a referendum.
Show less of commentRosemary Mortimer
Community Member 9 years agoWhat we need now is a period of calm, stability and purpose. It would be anti-democratic to re-run a referendum or in any way seek to change the result. The EU has told us to get on with it and for the sake of our European neighbours as...
Show full commentWhat we need now is a period of calm, stability and purpose. It would be anti-democratic to re-run a referendum or in any way seek to change the result. The EU has told us to get on with it and for the sake of our European neighbours as well as ourselves that is what we should do.
Show less of commentStephen James
Community Member 9 years agoIn this country we have a well established and purposeful system of parliamentary democracy that has underpinned a successful and evolving democracy over many hundreds of years - particularly since the early 19th century. It works because...
Show full commentIn this country we have a well established and purposeful system of parliamentary democracy that has underpinned a successful and evolving democracy over many hundreds of years - particularly since the early 19th century. It works because it filters out, what is called in statistical terms, outliers. What we had on 23rd June was ‘direct democracy’ where outliers were not filtered and made no allowance for ill-informed or extreme decisions. In other words, a bad choice was still allowed. Is ‘direct democracy’ such a good thing then when parliamentary democracy would almost certainly have produced a more judicious result.
Show less of comment