Walking and cycling in outer London
TfL research has found that people who live in outer London tend to walk and cycle less than those who live in inner London. There are lots of reasons for this, and the London Assembly Transport Committee is currently looking at difficult junctions that put people off walking and cycling.
What do you think? Are there any particularly difficult junctions or crossings around you that make it difficult to walk and cycle? Are there things you want improved? Or have you noticed any recent changes that have made it either easier or more difficult for you to get around?
The discussion ran from 17 July 2017 - 01 May 2018
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Community Member 7 years agoI cycle with 2 children aged 11 and 13. If the Mayors office is serious about cycling / improving health / improving air quality/ getting more women and kids cycling then there needs to be a joined up approach. Even the CS6 and 3 has cars...
Show full commentI cycle with 2 children aged 11 and 13. If the Mayors office is serious about cycling / improving health / improving air quality/ getting more women and kids cycling then there needs to be a joined up approach. Even the CS6 and 3 has cars pulling suddenly out of junctions and between Blackfriars bridge and Southwark bridge lorries and vans using the underpass section as a rat run when the road gets busy. It's impossible to speak about specific junctions. I have just been at a supposedly safe junction where a van narrowly missed me ( in my hi-viz and lights on )as he careered down the wrong side of the road on his mobile phone. Attitudes will change ( just like towards smoking ) if there is serious investment in cycling and walking - I agree with one of the posters here also - please come and cycle around London and then make decisions. If a city isn't fit for a child then something somewhere is out of balance. Thanks
Show less of commentSomeone
Community Member 7 years agoMaxcat, you are right that improving specific junctions is not the way forward. I well remember the time when a van driver on his phone entered a mini roundabout where I had priority, narrowly missing me. A commonplace incident that could...
Show full commentMaxcat, you are right that improving specific junctions is not the way forward. I well remember the time when a van driver on his phone entered a mini roundabout where I had priority, narrowly missing me. A commonplace incident that could have happened anywhere. A couple of days ago, a car driver roared past me at high speed on the wrong side of a pedestrian refuge. While this sort of lawless driving continues, not many people will cycle on the roads. And they will not be happy about their children walking alone either, so good habits aren't being established.
Focusing on a few particularly dangerous junctions is typical of the half-hearted, do-the-minimum approach that will achieve little. We need proper cycle tracks to Dutch standards, and more respect for pedestrians from the highway authorities.
Show less of commentE17 Pioneer
Community Member 7 years agoI completely agree with you. I have a 10 and 13 year old who are too old to be sat in a child seat on my bike, yet they have no concept of where they should safely cycle. Painted lines on the road are no use to them with everything else...
Show full commentI completely agree with you. I have a 10 and 13 year old who are too old to be sat in a child seat on my bike, yet they have no concept of where they should safely cycle. Painted lines on the road are no use to them with everything else they need to concentrate on ( especially when cars are always parked in them ).
It doesn't matter how many bikeabilty courses they go on in year 6, they are still too young to judge distances or keep within the white line on a painted bike lane. Cars pass too fast and too quickly and don't make allowances for children on bikes.
No wonder many women just put their kids in the car - you need nerves of steel to cycle with children on London's roads. Build safe bike lanes and women and children will come - safe segregated bike lanes, not paint on roads.
You will not believe how many motorists drive dangerously close to women and kids on bikes. I have been shouted at and abused just for being a woman on the road. I assume cyclists are 'meant to be men' so a special type of venom is reserved for women and children. Close passes, horns tooting, verbal abuse. Build us safe. segregated bike lanes, and we will use them.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years agoThe junction of Syon Lane and the A4 (Gilette Corner) is an example of one that is bad for both pedestrians and cyclists. There is a cycle track on both sides of the A4 which just disappears on the approach to the junction, the most...
Show full commentThe junction of Syon Lane and the A4 (Gilette Corner) is an example of one that is bad for both pedestrians and cyclists. There is a cycle track on both sides of the A4 which just disappears on the approach to the junction, the most critical point in terms of cyclist safety. Additionally there are no traffic signals on the pedestrian crossings, which makes crossing the road dangerous too. There is an underpass from one side of Syon Lane to the other but this does nothing for the people who want to continue on the A4 in either direction.
Show less of commentjameswherever
Community Member 7 years agoIt's been a while since I've done it, but if I cycle into Central London from Ealing, the main roundabout at Shepherd's Bush is a place I would rather avoid since it feels particularly dangerous to cyclists due to the multiple lanes which...
Show full commentIt's been a while since I've done it, but if I cycle into Central London from Ealing, the main roundabout at Shepherd's Bush is a place I would rather avoid since it feels particularly dangerous to cyclists due to the multiple lanes which cars, lorries and buses move between whilst jockeying for position.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years agoImprovements needed at Gallows Corner Romford like they have at bow roundabout junction
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years agoAlso the Romford ring road is very un cucle friendly.
Show full commentAlso the Romford ring road is very un cucle friendly.
Show less of commentkeela319
Community Member 7 years agoLondon's cycle facilities are usually implemented similar to an "afterthought", a "necessary evil". The car lobby is simply by far too obsessed with having ever more vehicles, prefereably bigger and wider, clogging up the roads. Even...
Show full commentLondon's cycle facilities are usually implemented similar to an "afterthought", a "necessary evil". The car lobby is simply by far too obsessed with having ever more vehicles, prefereably bigger and wider, clogging up the roads. Even Sadiq Khan is not interested for that he wants London open for business only.
Most cycle routes are in Central London. Try to cycle from Holloway Road to Seven Sisters quickly and efficiently. Or Crouch Hill to Enfield.
Holloway to Willesden is even worse!
An example of a proper cycle path, segregated from both motorised traffic and pedestrians (of course, you would have to travel to the Netherlands for this):
https://aseasyasridingabike.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/dscn9429.jpg
Or another example from Denmark in inner City Copenhagen:
https://ramblershighway.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/dsc06020.jpg
Or a German one alongside a rural road:
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/205fae822aa74d32a7b7b9c34bc6e778/cyclists-on-…
Finally a typical London cycle lane using a silly painted line on the road:
https://fitzrovianews.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/van2-tcr-cycle-lane.j…
Do you see the difference?
Show less of commentsueman
Community Member 7 years agoIn Northwood there are virtually no spaces for cyclists, apart from the front of some crossroads. The roads are too narrow to put a cycle lane in and anyway I have seen lots of motorists go much too close to cyclists who do brave it onto...
Show full commentIn Northwood there are virtually no spaces for cyclists, apart from the front of some crossroads. The roads are too narrow to put a cycle lane in and anyway I have seen lots of motorists go much too close to cyclists who do brave it onto the streets. Walking is obviously much healthier than driving when one has time but so many people seem to drive to the gym to get exercise.
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 8 years agoThank you for sharing your views.
Do you have any specific examples of changes that have worked well for both cyclists and pedestrians? Or any examples where a road’s layout has caused conflict between the two groups?
Do you have any ideas on changes that would make it easier to travel by foot?
Talk London
keela319
Community Member 7 years agoIf you care to compare these few images, then you probably understand (and no, that over-used example "my high street business will suffer if there is no parking" is a cheap get out clause):
An example of a proper cycle path, segregated...
Show full commentIf you care to compare these few images, then you probably understand (and no, that over-used example "my high street business will suffer if there is no parking" is a cheap get out clause):
An example of a proper cycle path, segregated from both motorised traffic and pedestrians (of course, you would have to travel to the Netherlands for this):
https://aseasyasridingabike.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/dscn9429.jpg
Or another example from Denmark in inner City Copenhagen:
https://ramblershighway.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/dsc06020.jpg
Or a German one alongside a rural road:
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/205fae822aa74d32a7b7b9c34bc6e778/cyclists-on-c...
Finally a typical London cycle lane using a silly painted line on the road:
Show less of commenthttps://fitzrovianews.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/van2-tcr-cycle-lane.j…
Someone
Community Member 7 years agoTalk London, there are innumerable examples of road layout that create conflict between bike users and pedestrians. Anywhere the road is too intimidating for cycling, some people cycle on the pavement, and no reasonable person can blame...
Show full commentTalk London, there are innumerable examples of road layout that create conflict between bike users and pedestrians. Anywhere the road is too intimidating for cycling, some people cycle on the pavement, and no reasonable person can blame them. But that annoys and intimidates some pedestrians, slows traffic, and on rare occasions can result in a collision.
And there are many examples of road layout that make the interests of pedestrians and bike users conflict. Pedestrian refuges help people cross the road, but they increase the danger to people cycling when drivers attempt unsafe overtakes.
Show less of commentAngel62
Community Member 8 years agoSadly I cannot drive nor cycle as a result of an injured wrist, so need to rely on public transport all the time. Therefore my concern is regarding proposed changes to bus routes for my local area as well as those that also cross into The...
Show full commentSadly I cannot drive nor cycle as a result of an injured wrist, so need to rely on public transport all the time. Therefore my concern is regarding proposed changes to bus routes for my local area as well as those that also cross into The City and Central London.
Show less of commentSteve Burton
Community Member 8 years agoI agree with comments below, the Cycle lanes that have been put in place, are a joke, they are along existing roads, that cars just see as parking bays, they should be placed along side existing pavements and separated by a barrier, to keep...
Show full commentI agree with comments below, the Cycle lanes that have been put in place, are a joke, they are along existing roads, that cars just see as parking bays, they should be placed along side existing pavements and separated by a barrier, to keep everyone safe.
The government instructed local councils, that they had to put in place, cycle lanes, this they have done in the cheapest way possible but has been a complete waste of money.
Show less of commentI know budgets are tight but shame on you local councils, you have wasted vast amount of funds, on a poor system, that as I have said before is a JOKE!
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoThere are a few issues:
1. Lack of co-ordinated routes between boroughs.
2. Lack of priority given to cyclists and peds at junctions
3. Lack of upkeep of existing facilities
If for example you look at the A30/A4 cycle lane and pavement...
Show full commentThere are a few issues:
1. Lack of co-ordinated routes between boroughs.
2. Lack of priority given to cyclists and peds at junctions
3. Lack of upkeep of existing facilities
If for example you look at the A30/A4 cycle lane and pavement you see everything wrong with these two modes in outer London. Surface is poor and full of branches. There is loads of space to widen and separate the two modes on A30 with huge grass verses, but the majority is "shared space".
You even have to give way to Hatton Cross car park FFS. The comparison with what has happened in Walthamstow is vast and not very complimentary to the boroughs out this way.
Then when you get out of Hillingdon and join the A4, it is full of parked cars, rubbish and again gives way at every side street. As soon as you get off the main road the on pavement route is lost and no signage is provided.
Would love to take Will Norman on a cycle safari around here. There are so many simple changes that could improve it massively, but the borough's just dont care (or dont appear to) and neither does TFL round here.
My bike recently got stolen from Hatton Cross tube station (apparently a hot spot for it), so they also need to get involved and provide proper facilitates (and more of them!).
Show less of commentSomeone
Community Member 8 years agoI live in outer London and make lots of journeys that are short enough to cycle. I rarely cycle now though, because of the almost total absence of safe cycle routes. I usually drive instead, adding to the congestion.
Statistically...
Show full commentI live in outer London and make lots of journeys that are short enough to cycle. I rarely cycle now though, because of the almost total absence of safe cycle routes. I usually drive instead, adding to the congestion.
Statistically, junctions are the most dangerous places for bike riders, but careless and incompetent drivers are a problem between junctions too. Many are unable to overtake safely. One or two close passes, let alone actual collisions, will stop most people from cycling. So what I want is protected cycle tracks. Just fixing the junctions is not enough. It might reduce deaths and injuries, but it won't do much to get people cycling. Subjective safety is essential too.
As for walking, there are many junctions with light controlled pedestrian crossings that are designed primarily to facilitate fast driving. It's as if they were designed to deter people from crossing the road. I sometimes have to wait through more than one set of light changes because motor traffic keeps on coming. Why is it always the pedestrian who has to wait? Pedestrians are often forced out of their intended route simply to get across a junction. Why are the crossing points not where they are actually needed instead of set back down the side roads?
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