Drones

What do you think of drones being used in London? Would you support them being used more, why or why not?

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Drones are aircraft without a human pilot on board. They have been used by public services in London for several years now. The Metropolitan Police Service is using them to support a range of operational activity, they were used to inspect tunnels and construction sites during Crossrail construction and the London Fire Brigade is currently trialling them when responding to incidents. They are also increasingly being used by private operators, for example to take film and TV footage or surveying.

Drones may become a more familiar sight in London in the next decade, and could be used for deliveries of post or emergency medical supplies, or even as a mode of transport.

However, some people have identified possible issues with more drone use, such as noise, safety, a loss of privacy or other environmental impacts.

Who would you want to call in the event of a complaint, such as drone noise or privacy concerns? And what are your thoughts on the next generation of urban air mobility, for instance 'flying' parcel delivery or even passenger services using small electric helicopters? Would you ever consider riding one, why or why not?

Tell us in our discussion below.

Summary

Thanks to everyone who joined in our discussion on drones. We’ve seen nearly 250 comments and have shared them with our colleagues in the Transport Team at City Hall and at Transport for London (TfL).

These are the main themes in the discussion on drones so far:

  • You’re concerned about noise, privacy issues and crime.
  • Many of you think that drones should be licensed.
  • You seem in favour of the use of drones for emergency services.
  • Some of you fear that drones might replace humans, and cause a loss of jobs.

Our policy teams would love to hear more of your views and have a few more questions. We have updated the discussion and look forward to hearing more of what you think.

The discussion ran from 20 May 2019 - 12 September 2019

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Comments (347)

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Drones used for deliveries save on labour. 

 

This means that they make people unemployed. 

 

With the exception of the emergency services, drone use should be heavily taxed to help support the newly unemployed

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Drones used for deliveries save on labour. 

 

This means that they make people unemployed. 

 

With the exception of the emergency services, drone use should be heavily taxed to help support the newly unemployed

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Avatar for - Adelie penguin

I don't see much use for them for members of the general public but I can see how they might be handy for the sorts of things mentioned in the intro above (deliveries etc.). But at the moment, I feel the negatives outweigh the positives...

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I don't see much use for them for members of the general public but I can see how they might be handy for the sorts of things mentioned in the intro above (deliveries etc.). But at the moment, I feel the negatives outweigh the positives. There certainly need to be more regulations about who can use them and how.

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Regulate all drone usage. Only licensed users for approved commercial, security or safety purposes. 

Ban private use, at best it's really annoying, at worst its a great tool for criminals

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Regulate all drone usage. Only licensed users for approved commercial, security or safety purposes. 

Ban private use, at best it's really annoying, at worst its a great tool for criminals

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Commercial drones for deliveries should be limited to specific operating hours. Delivery companies should be encouraged to use drones to reduce traffic. However it might be best to not allow drones to actually deliver anywhere where there...

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Commercial drones for deliveries should be limited to specific operating hours. Delivery companies should be encouraged to use drones to reduce traffic. However it might be best to not allow drones to actually deliver anywhere where there is significant foot trafffic and there is both annoyance and danger if drones fly at pedestrian height.  
There probably should be a maximum weight limit allowed for unregistered drones. Enough for a camera, not enough for a weapon. 
The usage of drones for recreation should be severely limited. They can be quite annoying and few recreational drone users have the ability to both fly their drones and pay attention to whether or not they are bothering other people. Operators may think their drones are quiet but those of us with highly sensitive hearing might disagree.
I'm frankly conflicted about the idea of strict registration and limits on who is allowed to fly. I think that there needs to be some exemption for any use of drones to take aerial footage of newsworthy events to serve a public good. One can easily see citizens with drones assisting firerighters in looking for people inside a burning building, or capturing criminal behaviour. We all know that both protestors and the police can misbehave when the two groups clash, having lots of angles on events should encourage both sides to behave better.
I do think that some thought needs to be given to the impact on jobs, but given how often I see food delivery people violating traffic laws I have to imagine that there would be some social good in not having so many of them (of course this same benefit could be gained by prohibiting employers from encouraging workers to break the law to make deliveries on too tight a timetable). 

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The only traffic that drones deliveries will reduce is the post. Heavier articles will still have to go by van.  One drone carries very little - how many drones would it take to deliver a van load of small parcels?   I see food delivery...

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The only traffic that drones deliveries will reduce is the post. Heavier articles will still have to go by van.  One drone carries very little - how many drones would it take to deliver a van load of small parcels?   I see food delivery people carrying several deliveries' worth at once, whereas it would take more drones to make those same deliveries, and with equal noise and air pollution. 

You don't have to have highly sensitive hearing for the noise of a drone to damage your health. They are already a noise nuisance problem. 

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I think they should be very useful, and as long as they are tightly regulated, could be the future of efficiency within a variety of sectors.

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I think they should be very useful, and as long as they are tightly regulated, could be the future of efficiency within a variety of sectors.

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Please don't let the actions of a few idiots ruin drones for the rest of us. Leverage the techonology to force a no fly zone in the drone software. 

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Please don't let the actions of a few idiots ruin drones for the rest of us. Leverage the techonology to force a no fly zone in the drone software. 

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Avatar for - Polar bear

Good idea. I am all for the authorities bring able to remotely control them when they look out of control too

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Good idea. I am all for the authorities bring able to remotely control them when they look out of control too

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Avatar for - Koala

Any reason why a commercial operator should be able to make (more) profit by flying delivery drones over my house or garden? Or the potentially hundreds of commercial enterprises that will inevitably follow suit as technology advances and...

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Any reason why a commercial operator should be able to make (more) profit by flying delivery drones over my house or garden? Or the potentially hundreds of commercial enterprises that will inevitably follow suit as technology advances and methodologies show them the way? And what about every other private citizen exercising their right to the unfettered enjoyment of their properties? If the no-fly zone was to respect every citizen’s right to peaceful enjoyment of their property, the zone would effectively blanket cover every residential area of every village, town and city, making the concept unworkable for the companies seeking to introduce it. So, what supporters of the idea are saying is that the right of people hitherto not to have noisy drones whizzing back & forth across their homes and gardens (think especially here of those near the warehouses that most of these delivery drones will emanate from and return to) is to be set aside so that companies can have a more efficient (= more profitable) way to do business. That may (MAY) result in cheaper prices or more convenience for the customers, but at everyone else’s expense. So, keep it for blue light services as required and hobbyists, who are relatively few (cf radio-controlled model aircraft hobbyists).

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Innecessary, more machine, more tecnology less people thinking, less job

I think this dangerous for old people and children in the street

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Innecessary, more machine, more tecnology less people thinking, less job

I think this dangerous for old people and children in the street

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Avatar for -

Drones are often used irresponsibly. I've seen people flying large drones right next to a herd of deer in Richmond Park.

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Drones are often used irresponsibly. I've seen people flying large drones right next to a herd of deer in Richmond Park.

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The Royal Parks have a blanket ban on the use of all UAVs, even if you try to apply for a permit, it will not be issued.

This person is an example of a flyer who doesnt adhere to the rules.

Blame the operator, not the technology.

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The Royal Parks have a blanket ban on the use of all UAVs, even if you try to apply for a permit, it will not be issued.

This person is an example of a flyer who doesnt adhere to the rules.

Blame the operator, not the technology.

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Avatar for - Polar bear

Yes but because the technology is in the hands of a fool it needs removing from those hands 

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Yes but because the technology is in the hands of a fool it needs removing from those hands 

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Drones are, in the right hands, an excellent tool for expanding the potential of hobbies such as landscape and cityscape photography. 

All recreational drone pilots have to be informed of the "drone code", and the current laws before...

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Drones are, in the right hands, an excellent tool for expanding the potential of hobbies such as landscape and cityscape photography. 

All recreational drone pilots have to be informed of the "drone code", and the current laws before operating their drone. This includes the very basic "not near an airport" commandment. Every drone pilot, recreational or professional, is already legally responsible for their flight, and is liable for any damages incurred by their drone. In November this year, very strict laws are already coming into effect for those in possession of drones. CAA registration, and annual fees will apply.

If you look through drone pilot groups on the internet, you'll see thousands of posts of gorgeous landscape, coastline, abstract and cityscape photographs all taken by people flying drones in a perfectly responsible manner and well within the rules. Just a few people behaving in a deliberately irresponsible manner ruin it for the rest. Many drone pilots, flying perfectly responsibly and enjoying creating beautiful artwork have been vilified recently, leading to abuse and even assault by members of the general public. This is not acceptable in any way.

Throughout the incident at Gatwick Airport, thousands of drone pilots across the UK publicly condemned the actions of the Gatwick drone pilot. The solution, however, does not lie in blanket restricting drones further.

The clear solution should be to restrict the sale of cheap import drones and only allow the sale of drones with GPS/geofencing technology built in (as many of the reputable brands already do)- this, along with the incoming new laws, would solve all the issues.

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Almost every drone that is flown in the UK is the cause of noise problems for humans or for wildlife. To use them is irresponsible.  So what if people read the 'drone code' - unless drone flyers are continuously monitored they will fly...

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Almost every drone that is flown in the UK is the cause of noise problems for humans or for wildlife. To use them is irresponsible.  So what if people read the 'drone code' - unless drone flyers are continuously monitored they will fly drones irresponsibly. The laws that are coming into effect are weak and ineffective.  There are no resources available for effective 'policing' of drone use.  It is pointless to have regulations and licensing if there are no means of properly policing drones use. This will be just the same as the failure to fund policing for legislation such as the Environmental Protection Act or the Control of Pollution Act.  The misbehaviour just goes on regardless of the law or regulations because there is no means of stopping it. Ordinary citizens will suffer as usual.

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Horrifying amount of cost and disruption already caused at airports. ok for emergency services but definitely should not be in the hands of private users wthout some very strong regulations to protect people's privacy and safety...

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Horrifying amount of cost and disruption already caused at airports. ok for emergency services but definitely should not be in the hands of private users wthout some very strong regulations to protect people's privacy and safety, Frightening what they can do in the hands of paparazzi . As mentioned before they are bad for the environment, distracting to drivers, dangerous if not properly controlled, they can kill and are wide open to abuse. i think we are a very long way away from being able to use them for any practical purposes such as deliveries.

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Fine by me 

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Fine by me 

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Potential for being a highly effective tool for professional use only. Emergency use should be prioritised, i.e delivery of medical items, as well as police and fire brigade operational a uses. Also important to permit the restricted and...

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Potential for being a highly effective tool for professional use only. Emergency use should be prioritised, i.e delivery of medical items, as well as police and fire brigade operational a uses. Also important to permit the restricted and regulated use by professionals such as Surveyors for the inspection and monitoring of the City's buildings and infrastructure. Aside from the above, and perhaps for occssionally licenced event photography, there doesn't appear to be any real need for Drones generally  in the city otherwise. 

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I agree with everyone: drones should be registered and vetted so they don’t get in the hand of criminal gangs and kids.. They should only be sold to government bodies and perhaps used by NHS to deliver special  medications but only from...

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I agree with everyone: drones should be registered and vetted so they don’t get in the hand of criminal gangs and kids.. They should only be sold to government bodies and perhaps used by NHS to deliver special  medications but only from hospitals to other hospitals. I think organisations such as Amazon should be banned from delivering goods in London. Imagine we have  already a thousand planes flying above us and adding drones we would only make our lives less secure. Already drones are used by criminal gangs to deliver drugs and other objects into prisons and if they are not controlled they could deliver drungs to people everywhere  indiscriminately. I SAY NO to unregulated drones

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Letting anyone buy and use drones is a complete disaster waiting to happen. Money blinded leaders forget that there are many people in this world who cannot/will not obey rules. If everyone followed rules we wouldn't need law enforcement....

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Letting anyone buy and use drones is a complete disaster waiting to happen. Money blinded leaders forget that there are many people in this world who cannot/will not obey rules. If everyone followed rules we wouldn't need law enforcement.

Yes - there are many good uses for drones. So, why not only sell drones to organisations who can prove they will use the drone for good and are trained to use them? i.e. ONLY SELLING DRONES TO LICENCED USERS.

Not everyone NEEDS a drone and enforcing safe use of drones is near impossible. How did the person/people flying a drone near Gatwick Airport get away with it? The CAA drone code told them not to fly near airports, yet they still did! People don't listen. It's a joke to think if you write a drone code people will follow it.

I was once on a busy road and a drone was flown about a 2 meters from my car.

Imagine a drone in the hands of teenagers hanging around wanting to have a laugh or in the hands of a terrorist or just someone not mentally stable or someone who does not have the skills to control one but decides to use one in public (e.g. on holiday) anyway?

But yet again, if these companies want to make money at the cost of safety they will.

There should have been a ban on these being sold at the start. It will be hard to take these toys away from the babies of this world now.

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Avatar for - Adelie penguin

Drones are a danger to aviation as seen recently - chaos at Gatwick and many thousands of lives affected.

Drones should be banned from sale to the public; only licensed operators.

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Drones are a danger to aviation as seen recently - chaos at Gatwick and many thousands of lives affected.

Drones should be banned from sale to the public; only licensed operators.

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Drones could be very useful in takling London's out of control criminal gangs. As long as drones are used within a clear set of guidlines and procedural rules, they should be a benefit to the Met and the wider public. The danger is overuse...

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Drones could be very useful in takling London's out of control criminal gangs. As long as drones are used within a clear set of guidlines and procedural rules, they should be a benefit to the Met and the wider public. The danger is overuse and overreliance on technology, which is no replacement for face to face community policing. Drones must not be used as a cost cutting exercise to further reduce officer numbers.

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Surely the gangs would be using drones for their own illegal activities?  Lack of regulation would make it harder to crack down on the gangs.

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Surely the gangs would be using drones for their own illegal activities?  Lack of regulation would make it harder to crack down on the gangs.

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Very intrusive with few restrictions. I was gardening over the weekend last year when a drone was hovering above me for a very lon time on both the Saturday and Sunday. Nothing I could do but it felt very uncomfortable.

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Very intrusive with few restrictions. I was gardening over the weekend last year when a drone was hovering above me for a very lon time on both the Saturday and Sunday. Nothing I could do but it felt very uncomfortable.

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And you probably could not see where the operator was.  I have had a similar experience, from an extraordinarily noisy drone too. 

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And you probably could not see where the operator was.  I have had a similar experience, from an extraordinarily noisy drone too. 

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I agree with most of the sentiment expressed already in this forum - drones can be highly beneficial when used by designated authorities in support of essential and potentially dangerous services, e.g. emergency (only) medical delivery...

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I agree with most of the sentiment expressed already in this forum - drones can be highly beneficial when used by designated authorities in support of essential and potentially dangerous services, e.g. emergency (only) medical delivery, underground network/tunnel inspection, fire assessment, and land/ocean surveyance - in all cases operated by authorities rather than private commercial.

I feel that the private and leisure use of drones comes with the high potential of mistreatment (as many others have suggested).  As it is already, they are an unnecessary invasion of public and personal space - both the sound and sight of them. And due to the remote control of them, it is sometimes difficult to know who is operating them, what their intentions are (scenic photos vs. spying), and where they are being controlled from. I personally think the private sale and personal use of them should be banned.

I do not foresee drones being used as passenger vehicles in the near future nor think this would be a good idea - the way forward on the movement of people in cities is not to promote private transport but to reinforce and maintain/improve public transport and our pedestrian/cycle networks.  Passenger drones would be a nightmare on our physical landscape, as leisure drones already are.

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I feel that drones are useful in certain circumstances.

For example, police can use them where dangerous surveillance is required, hostage situations, missing people, traffic reports etc.  I think a drone would be less intrusive and cost...

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I feel that drones are useful in certain circumstances.

For example, police can use them where dangerous surveillance is required, hostage situations, missing people, traffic reports etc.  I think a drone would be less intrusive and cost-effective in such situations.  The same tasks are being done by helicopter anyway. So for government and local authorities, I think they are useful.

However, non-essential areas, such as recreational use, is more problematic.  I could see the growth of drones being used for fun, might get to a point where they would be dangerous.  For example, would we like to see out parks and gardens buzzing with hundreds of drones every weekend?  In the hands of the public, the regulation would be difficult to enforce.  I recall the Gatwick Airport incident.

I would agree with their use in the hands of authorities, once approved and regulated.

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They should be tagged so that the Police can track them. They should also be licenced and confined to monitored spaces. If this isn't possible then they should be banned

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They should be tagged so that the Police can track them. They should also be licenced and confined to monitored spaces. If this isn't possible then they should be banned

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I agree about tagging and I think that a kind of "registration" via Police or Gov controlled WiFi gateway able to cover the whole town area and to clear the drons and, in the near future, the aero taxis route, should be operating.

In this...

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I agree about tagging and I think that a kind of "registration" via Police or Gov controlled WiFi gateway able to cover the whole town area and to clear the drons and, in the near future, the aero taxis route, should be operating.

In this way "public services" drones could be controlled in a different way than the private ones.  Private shall be registrated and the controlling SW shall have a high level program that could stop the flight (every flight in a specific zone or in all zones) by a POLICE Remote Command (probably proper landing area should be defined for each zone).

I think that regulations and organization are needed (as for "C" or ULEZ) but it is not possible and useful to stop this new tool.

We must remember that who would make criminal acts will not wait for regulations, today and in the future, as a lot of not authorized guns (and Knives) are in the hands of criminals.  Modern society is complex and, in a certain way, a kind of "big brother", with multiple sophisticated duties, is probably required.

 

 

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