A fairer deal for renters

Do you think measures such as open-ended tenancies would help improve trust between landlords and tenants?

User Image for
Added by Talk London

Up vote 0
Care 0

City Hall wants a fairer deal for private renters. The 'London Model' is a proposal aiming to significantly improve security for renters by balancing the relationship between renters and landlords.

The discussion ran from 13 March 2019 - 13 June 2019

Closed


Want to join our next discussion?

New here? Join Talk London, City Hall's online community where you can have your say on London's biggest issues.

Join Talk London

Already have an account?

Log into your account
Comments (192)

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

This issue is not covered in the proposed changes - the shortage of property available to rent works against the renter. Selling local authority housing to existing tenants reduces the available stock to rent (the assumption that new...

Show full comment

This issue is not covered in the proposed changes - the shortage of property available to rent works against the renter. Selling local authority housing to existing tenants reduces the available stock to rent (the assumption that new houses would be built to replace those sold has never been achieved).
Some controls on rent increases would be good but should not penalise the landlord.

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Koala
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

The proposals discussed in the survey are a good start, but they do nothing to address the problem of letting fees (which should be abolished entirely), of high deposits (which should be capped at 3 weeks' rent) and of the general...

Show full comment

The proposals discussed in the survey are a good start, but they do nothing to address the problem of letting fees (which should be abolished entirely), of high deposits (which should be capped at 3 weeks' rent) and of the general powerlessness of tenants vis a vis landlords.

Also, can we start an awareness campaign on the regulations on housing standards aimed at tenants and landlords alike - so that both parties know the landlord MUST ACT (and must act FAST) when, say, the boiler breaks down, there is one bathroom for 11 housemates and mice start a colony in your attic?

More importantly, can we give greater and swifter intervention powers to Council when subnormal housing conditions are reported by desperate tenants? Box rooms (closet-sized rooms, often with no window) for rent are tecnichally against the law, yet box room ads proliferate on Gumtree.

And finally, let us start considering capping rent. If a single room in Canning Town at a 20-minute walk away from the Tube can now go for £500 a month, then there really is no value for money anymore.

P.S. can we also make it mandatory for landlords of HMOs to provide wi-fi to their tenants (who can they pay the internet bills) and to be responsible for its continuous availability? Just a thought, but it is 2019 after all...

 

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Atlantic cod
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

You are a bit late tenants fees have already been banned and deposits capped at 5 weeks.

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Councils have the powers, but not the funds for pursuing the rogue landlords. Due to cuts in government grant. 

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Not a very well structured questionnaire - looks like you already know what you want to do and are just looking for some justification.  The only long term solution to London housing (owned and rented) is to set up incentives to encourage a...

Show full comment

Not a very well structured questionnaire - looks like you already know what you want to do and are just looking for some justification.  The only long term solution to London housing (owned and rented) is to set up incentives to encourage a lot more building - relax planning constraints, build on parts of the green-belt, tax unbuilt development land, let local authorities borrow more at current low interest rates to fund public or public/private developments...  It would also be a good idea to increase taxes on usage (council tax) but cut transaction taxes which discourage mobility (stamp duty).

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

So True ==>> " Not a very well structured questionnaire - looks like you already know what you want to do and are just looking for some justification. "

Avatar for - Sea turtle
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

These proposals will kill off the supply of accommodation available to rent, thus preventing the young and the poor from luiving in London at all.  That is what happened under the Rent Acts of the 1970's.

Avatar for - Atlantic cod
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Completely correct.

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

It's more likely that landlords who are unwilling to abide by these proposals will either give the properties to a relative to live in or sell to a more serious landlord or buy-to-live. 

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

People with no connection to this country buy such a large number of properies! This drives housing prices up more than anything!

I can understand temporarily going elsewhere and letting your house, or buying property as an investment for...

Show full comment

People with no connection to this country buy such a large number of properies! This drives housing prices up more than anything!

I can understand temporarily going elsewhere and letting your house, or buying property as an investment for your retirement, but investing in London property when you are a rich person from Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Russia or China, only makes things worse for everyone here, as you are never physically here, are not part of the community, and only care about pushing the rents up!

Homes are more than a balance sheet on your portfolio!

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Sumatran elephant
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

The way rents are raised and charged is unfair because the rent is not simply for the building it is also based on site values. In fact most of the rent comes from that of the value of the site. Yet these sites are natural resources which...

Show full comment

The way rents are raised and charged is unfair because the rent is not simply for the building it is also based on site values. In fact most of the rent comes from that of the value of the site. Yet these sites are natural resources which value is mostly due to the degree of infrastructure and population density in that region.

Adam Smith (“Wealth of Nations”, 1776) says that land is one of the 3 factors of production (the other 2 being labor and durable capital goods). The usefulness of land is in the price that tenants pay as rent, for access rights to the particular site in question. Land is often considered as being a form of capital, since it is traded similarly to other durable capital goods items. However it is not actually man-made, so rightly it does not fall within this category. But its site-value greatly depends on location and is related to the community density in that region, as well as the natural resources. Consequently, most of the land value is created by man within his society and therefore its advantage should logically and ethically be returned to the community for its general use.

Regarding taxation and local community spending, municipal taxes are partly used for improving the infrastructure. This means that the land becomes more valuable without the landlord doing anything. This also applies when the status of unused land is upgraded and it becomes fit for community development. When this news is leaked, speculation in land values is rife. There are many advantages if the land values were taxed instead of the other kinds of production-based activities such as earnings, purchases, capital gains, home investments, etc. The only people due to lose from this are those who exploit the growing values of the land, when “mere” land ownership confers a financial benefit, without the owner doing a scrap of work. Consequently, for a truly socially just kind of taxation to apply there can only be one method Land-Value Taxation.

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Atlantic cod
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

I'm afraid you have no clue as to how rents are set, it has nothing to do with site value, it is done on the basis of how much people are willing to pay which is set by the open market

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

This is not really an issue that should be being touted in this manner, it is a lot more complex and country wide NOT a London problem. 'Good for tenants' and 'Good for landlords' simplistically as these questions is not the answer...

Show full comment

This is not really an issue that should be being touted in this manner, it is a lot more complex and country wide NOT a London problem. 'Good for tenants' and 'Good for landlords' simplistically as these questions is not the answer. Landlords are reluctant to agree long term lets due to the Tenants having more power when it comes to getting the property back when in dispute, I know many landlords who have lost 10's of thousands in rent whilst getting tenants out who are not paying their rent, until courts back landlords like any other business owed money landlords will not allow long term and flexible lets of the type proposed. Rent rise capping is an important proposal that needs implementing immediately, along with maximum rental rates based upon location accross the country. These items and requirement for landlords to be registered so that the unscrupulous ones can be banned or sanctioned if properties are not up to standards required.

Show less of comment

Avatar for - American pika
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

I'm German and let out porperty in Germany, which has a imbalanced protection for tenants, and although I am a strong supporter of  open-ended tenancies with agreed notice period, e.g. 3 months, which are flexible and facilitate that the...

Show full comment

I'm German and let out porperty in Germany, which has a imbalanced protection for tenants, and although I am a strong supporter of  open-ended tenancies with agreed notice period, e.g. 3 months, which are flexible and facilitate that the rental market accommundates working people, I am against the creation of the imbalance against landlords, who should have the same right to end the contract as their tenant. I agree that properties for rent in London often would not be considered inhabiltable in other European countries, but this should be regulated by health and safety requirements for landlords. If a landlord cannot give notice to a tenant they will always "force" the tenant to leave by for e.g. blocking facilities, starting noisy and dirty constrution work or neglecting the property just to get tenants to leave.

Please allow a balanced contract execution and termination, so that people can bargain their business / needs on equal terms.  

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Very reasonable - I am sure Oxyhaemoglobin (above) would agree with you.  I don't know Germany, but from experience of renting in Paris there is a clear professional framework where the landlord is the undoubted boss, but there are clear...

Show full comment

Very reasonable - I am sure Oxyhaemoglobin (above) would agree with you.  I don't know Germany, but from experience of renting in Paris there is a clear professional framework where the landlord is the undoubted boss, but there are clear sets of rules on respective rights and responsibilities which people get on with, and it works.  Property rental should be a rational and balanced business.  It is a pity that abuse has become far too frequent among both for landlords and tenants in the UK, which leads to unhelpful "them and us" emotional attitudes to the problem.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Absolutely !

These are the Golden words:
“I am against the creation of the imbalance against landlords, who should have the same right to end the contract as their tenant” &
“Please allow a balanced contract execution and termination, so...

Show full comment

Absolutely !

These are the Golden words:

“I am against the creation of the imbalance against landlords, who should have the same right to end the contract as their tenant” &

“Please allow a balanced contract execution and termination, so that people can bargain their business / needs on equal terms.”

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

I understand that a good proportion of MPs have homes they rent out and yet they vote on legislation which affects renters (I've seen figures such as 'one third of all MPs: I don't know how true this is). I know they register their interest...

Show full comment

I understand that a good proportion of MPs have homes they rent out and yet they vote on legislation which affects renters (I've seen figures such as 'one third of all MPs: I don't know how true this is). I know they register their interest. However I think this is a confict of interest that is not managed well in our parliamentary system and leads to a balance in favour of the landlord in most cases. Therefore anything that the London Mayor and his team can do to counteract this is to be welcomed. I feel very sorry for all types of renters and find people like me (own home, no mortgage) who seek personal gain by becoming renters quite difficult to deal with.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

As a current landlord and a former tenant I think the current short tenancies serve no purpose to either party. As a landlord a long open-ended tenancy should give me security of long-term income from the property. Landlords should exist to...

Show full comment

As a current landlord and a former tenant I think the current short tenancies serve no purpose to either party. As a landlord a long open-ended tenancy should give me security of long-term income from the property. Landlords should exist to provide long-term decent accommodation - that is the service we are in the business of providing. Short tenancies add to both landlord and tenant costs and uncertainties. 

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

That's pretty half hearted.

Why don't you start by looking at a country where most people rent - Germany.

In Germany there is no Government engineered shortage of properties to keep prices rising to attract investment purchases from rich...

Show full comment

That's pretty half hearted.

Why don't you start by looking at a country where most people rent - Germany.

In Germany there is no Government engineered shortage of properties to keep prices rising to attract investment purchases from rich foreigners who feel insecure in their own counties and want a bolt-hole and a nest egg in London . . .

In Germany a good tenant raises the value of a rental property. In the UK we are seen as vermin by rich capitalists.

In Germany, you can stay in a rented property as long as you want ( excepting a few reasons )

In Germany they don't have near-zero interest rates - as Government policy - which allow property owners to re-morgage in the faked rising market - housing supply being throttled as Government policy - to fund deposit for new properies and out-price first time buyers

In Germany there is no faked housing market providing a return which is much higher than from running real a wealth creating business, so the German market doesn't attract more than its share of investment - pushing prces even higher. Instead the Germans run a real economy with real welth creation . .

The problems in Britain are ALL caused by British Politicians.

These tweaks by city hall are just more opiate for the masses.

A real fix - buy up all the old Victorian Terrace houses in London and build a million nice large flats - a large order will command a cheap price.

8 large flats instead of one old house should be saleable at a profit - even for a politician.

Instead we will get "affordable" housing - affordable at the prices of a faked-up housing market - so being a dog-kennel size property unsaleable in a normal supply and demand housing market ( like in Germany ) - thereby breaking London housing for ever . . .

We need a "none of these candidates" option on all ballot papers so we don't have Hobsons choice all the time

 

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

... and what happens when these million nice flats fill up which, BTW, will be sooner than you think!

Everyones quality of life will be worse because they lived like caged hens, and developers/government will be wringing their hands with...

Show full comment

... and what happens when these million nice flats fill up which, BTW, will be sooner than you think!

Everyones quality of life will be worse because they lived like caged hens, and developers/government will be wringing their hands with glee at all the money they will make.

Supply is insatiable and driven by jobs and foreign investment. Direct those away from London and prices (house and rent) will fall with demand. Wouldn't you like to work in Birmingham? 

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Rent control is urgently needed. I've seen a room which can't even fit in a single mattress asking for £400 a month. There's no furniture apart from a light bulb from the ceiling. The size of the room is barely bigger than a desk. How...

Show full comment

Rent control is urgently needed. I've seen a room which can't even fit in a single mattress asking for £400 a month. There's no furniture apart from a light bulb from the ceiling. The size of the room is barely bigger than a desk. How ridiculous London's rent has risen.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Rent controls, Rent controls, Rent controls. 

Other suggestions here are positive, but ultimately without rent controls are just tinkering around the edges. 

Very disappointing to see that even in a survey the Mayor's office won't include...

Show full comment

Rent controls, Rent controls, Rent controls. 

Other suggestions here are positive, but ultimately without rent controls are just tinkering around the edges. 

Very disappointing to see that even in a survey the Mayor's office won't include them! 

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Atlantic cod
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

The first thing that happens with rent controls is that landlords sell up, the next is rents go up because of the shortage of property, rent controls have never worked just look at Dublin since they were introduced a few years ago rental...

Show full comment

The first thing that happens with rent controls is that landlords sell up, the next is rents go up because of the shortage of property, rent controls have never worked just look at Dublin since they were introduced a few years ago rental properties have been sold and rents are trough the roof.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Not allowing landlords to evict tenants FOR ANY REASON after the agreed notice period ends is a terrible idea, and will send London back to the dark ages of real estate

Take a look at San Francisco or Bombay (Mumbai) to see what happens...

Show full comment

Not allowing landlords to evict tenants FOR ANY REASON after the agreed notice period ends is a terrible idea, and will send London back to the dark ages of real estate

Take a look at San Francisco or Bombay (Mumbai) to see what happens once the landlords lose discretionary rights over eviction. That said, by no means should any landlord be allowed to force a tenant out sooner than the agreed notice period, even if it is as long as 3-6 months.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

That is not what the survey is suggesting at all. It will end NO-FAULT evictions but will keep protections for landlords who want their property back for legitimate reasons.

3-6 months isn't long. People on average London wages will hardly...

Show full comment

That is not what the survey is suggesting at all. It will end NO-FAULT evictions but will keep protections for landlords who want their property back for legitimate reasons.

3-6 months isn't long. People on average London wages will hardly be able to save up for a new deposit and agency fees is evicted at no fault after 3 months. 

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

If "legitimate" is defined by anyone other than the owner of a property, then that is totally unfair to the owner of the property. Again, it belongs to them - they should be entitled to do whatver they want with it, provided they honor the...

Show full comment

If "legitimate" is defined by anyone other than the owner of a property, then that is totally unfair to the owner of the property. Again, it belongs to them - they should be entitled to do whatver they want with it, provided they honor the terms of their rental agreement. That's the point of having an agreement.

I believe 6 months is plenty of time for a London resident to move apartments, should the landlord decide to terminate the tenancy agreement. Again, this is meant to be negotiated between both parties. 

I'm a tenant myself - I own no property anywhere but hope to some day. I would hate to think that I would be limited in any way in addressing the needs of my asset(s) on a discretionary basis because of overbearing legislation. 

Show less of comment

Load more
Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

There should be no such thing as private landlords only renting from councils but unfortunately we are a long way from that.  So the least a council/the mayor can do is establish the fair rent for a property and then cap rates and rate...

Show full comment

There should be no such thing as private landlords only renting from councils but unfortunately we are a long way from that.  So the least a council/the mayor can do is establish the fair rent for a property and then cap rates and rate increases with the long term aim of eliminating privately rented properties.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

"eliminating privately rented properties" So that even more people have trouble finding somewhere to live!  Local authorities would do better to encourage and assist people into ownership of their own homes.

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

I'm sorry to say, but this is absolutely not solving any of the problems with renting in London.

The prices are way too high. There is high demand to live here, however the supply is not here. People have to go further and further out to...

Show full comment

I'm sorry to say, but this is absolutely not solving any of the problems with renting in London.

The prices are way too high. There is high demand to live here, however the supply is not here. People have to go further and further out to afford living here.

Plus, the properties are most of the time worn out, dated, etc.. and landlords most of the time gets away with it because there is no regulations and because people want to live here.

Also, there is now access to ownership seeing the price of the properties here. 

More than half the new buildings built are empty because bought by rich people abroad for speculation. it shouldn't be like that! 

Something needs to be done & the open end thing is not a solution

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Adelie penguin
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Agree absolutely.  Government claims to require developers to include a proportion of social (affordable) housing in their new developments, but there are multiple ways in which commitments at the time of applying for planning permission...

Show full comment

Agree absolutely.  Government claims to require developers to include a proportion of social (affordable) housing in their new developments, but there are multiple ways in which commitments at the time of applying for planning permission can be revised to reduce or exclude the social housing, with little or no penalty to the developer.  That is why the vast majority of new build in London is out of reach of ordinary working people.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Agree! I wonder what the actual numbers are. How many homes are being built. How many were brought by foreign investors and then rented out at what prices? How many people want to buy a home in London because they live and work here? What...

Show full comment

Agree! I wonder what the actual numbers are. How many homes are being built. How many were brought by foreign investors and then rented out at what prices? How many people want to buy a home in London because they live and work here? What are their salaries? How many homes are being built that they can actually afford it? With no real numbers or admittance on real facts the government can keep fumbling along and not deal with this.

Shared ownership and help to buy don’t make sense. A 500k flat is still unaffordable no matter how you wrap it up share ownership or help to buy.

Work out how many homes you need to build for people on X salary and sell it to them at a “discounted price.” Sales of flats to investors from any project involving a penny of taxpayers money is immoral.

Show less of comment

Load more
Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

The question about what most challenging about private renting needs a comment field. I would say that it is a combination of all of the mentioned answers that make private renting challenging. The upfront fees and deposit is untenable with...

Show full comment

The question about what most challenging about private renting needs a comment field. I would say that it is a combination of all of the mentioned answers that make private renting challenging. The upfront fees and deposit is untenable with high rents and termination of contract or refusal to renew contract after less than a year. How people on lower incomes manage to save up is beyond me! 

The stress of one year contracts and a competitive rental market means you are less likely to complain to your landlord from a fear of not having your contract renewed or having your rent hiked up so you are forced to move out. There is no incentive to make the flat feel like home because you don't know if you have to move again soon. 

The other thing to add on that list is a yearly cap on rent increases - say 5% to account for inflation and a bit extra. The biggest problem in London is what you have to pay for a place to live, and how incredibly little you often get for it. 

Being a private landlord should be a legitimate business with a long-term view of recuperating costs, not a free for all. 

There is nothing wrong with renting long-term. As a Swede I can attest to the benefits of living in long-term secure rentals, there is less responsibility and potential financial strain than owning your own property. If something breaks the landlord fixes it, or replaces it for you. Obviously if you break it you buy it, but generally there is all the security with less of the responsibility. For a single-mom working as a nurse, with limited ability to save up a buffert, it was preferable to rent than buy. 

Very encouraging that the GLA is finally starting to tackle this issue! More and faster please.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

A thoughtful reply.

As a landlord, I have been happy to provide accommodation for many people, some staying over 7 years.

Rents are high for renters but the cost of the property is equally relevant plus the increasing costs of managing...

Show full comment

A thoughtful reply.

As a landlord, I have been happy to provide accommodation for many people, some staying over 7 years.

Rents are high for renters but the cost of the property is equally relevant plus the increasing costs of managing and ensuring compliance with the many regulations (many very important) that govern us all.

My typical ”return" of rents on capital is only around 2.5% per annum after costs and before tax. That ignores the increases in the capital values which have been good until recently but equally reduce the % return!

. And this is keeping the properties going with tough decisions on capital costs - for example a major refurbishment would eat up a whole year’s rental or more and is not all tax deductible any more.

Now with property values in decline and with a bleak outlook, the economic case to hold property to rent may disappear.

The point is that if renting becomes more difficult or less profitable, then people such as me will simply sell up and take the capital to earn more elsewhere with less stress and higher liquidity. 

In terms of rent increase, what is often overlooked is that landlords hate empty properties. They incur costs without any income.

As Madeleine suggests, I keep rent increases to a nominal amount, usually less than inflation, as I like to keep tenants. The downside of this is that unless tenants do change and you can move back up to a market level, the rent slowly falls in real terms while costs tend to do the reverse.

I have experience of many types of tenant. The EU tenants have been the most proactive. They tell me when there is a problem and they help to fix it. My favourite lets me know and call the repair man herself for a convenient time; I refund her by return.

Last, so far at least all tenants have only left when their circumstances changed- new job, family etc. . . .

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

A thoughful response in return Bushbaby.

I don't believe all private landlords are out to make as much money as possible to the cost of renters. I commend your commitment to your tenants. However, landlords like you are not always the norm...

Show full comment

A thoughful response in return Bushbaby.

I don't believe all private landlords are out to make as much money as possible to the cost of renters. I commend your commitment to your tenants. However, landlords like you are not always the norm. There are rogue landlords out there and with meagre protections for renters there is a power imbalace which greatly affects the most vulnerable in our society. People like me can afford a one bed with my partner, and asked friends and family for help if we need to move on short notice. Not all people are in that situation. 

I actually think the concept and reality of profiting from a human right such as housing is fundamentally wrong. However, I recognise that we live in the UK and this is a capitalist society. I have chosen to live here so I will accept that this is the case. That said, I will continue to advocate for the most vulnerable in society and commend landlords who do the right thing. 

Show less of comment

Load more