Sensor data
How do you feel about gathering and using data with sensor technology?
Sensor data is data collected by a device that detects and responds to a physical environment, for example detecting free car parking spaces or usage of parks.
Sensors in the public domain give us more data about how people live, work and visit the city.
How do you feel about gathering and using data in this way? What do you think are the benefits? What concerns do you have?
The discussion ran from 13 March 2018 - 14 September 2018
Closed
Want to join our next discussion?
New here? Join Talk London, City Hall's online community where you can have your say on London's biggest issues.
Join Talk LondonAlready have an account?
Log into your accountAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years agoIt's difficoult to discuss about this new possible intrusion into our life and to forget that our phone consent, as a minimum, a perfect continuous tracking of our position.
Show full commentWe must consider too, that if it is possible that our car could be...
It's difficoult to discuss about this new possible intrusion into our life and to forget that our phone consent, as a minimum, a perfect continuous tracking of our position.
Show less of commentWe must consider too, that if it is possible that our car could be driven by other persons, it is more difficoult that our phone is in another poket. So privacy is a remarks, but, I think not the critical one.
If an improvement of some services could be achieved by sensor's data the final balance could be positive.
Obviusly benches and green spaces are the real word, and statistics must give a contribute to better address resources, but must to be avoided to build a virtual world of numbers, that must be used in a clever way, having the people in our mind.
Real benefit must be proposed and analyzed.
L.Tamagno
Duncan Lyons
Community Member 7 years agoIn line with other people I would be concerned about the purposes to which the collected data was to be put. As has been pointed out already transparency is key but so is accountability. So if such a scheme were to be introduced I think...
Show full commentIn line with other people I would be concerned about the purposes to which the collected data was to be put. As has been pointed out already transparency is key but so is accountability. So if such a scheme were to be introduced I think that the public should know who was administering it, who they reported to, who was monitoring the use made of the data and how frequently such checks were carried out.
Show less of commentlifeb4death
Community Member 7 years agoMass surveillance of this kind is absolutely not acceptable no matter what wrapper it comes under. It is not data collection that will improve people's lives but the basics: good affordable housing, a well maintained public transport system...
Show full commentMass surveillance of this kind is absolutely not acceptable no matter what wrapper it comes under. It is not data collection that will improve people's lives but the basics: good affordable housing, a well maintained public transport system etc etc... We do not need to know how many people are sitting on park benches!! We do need well maintained parks and green spaces.There is so much data showing the toxicity of London air but relatively little being done about it. So much for the real value of data collection! Just another diversion...direct resources and energy into more meaningful areas of life, PLEASE.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years agoToo much surveillance and data is recorded now. TFL have not been able to resist technology for revenue generation so I suspect this would end up the same.
Show full commentToo much surveillance and data is recorded now. TFL have not been able to resist technology for revenue generation so I suspect this would end up the same.
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 7 years agoThanks everyone for sharing your views, concerns and examples.
One example of sensor data you might have come across in London are the cycling counters, recording the amount of Londoners who use a certain cycling lane.
How do you feel about this? Can you think of other examples like this?
Talk London
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years agoI believe there's nothing wrong with the sensor data collection. They won't have our personal details or data or anything like that, it's just a sensor that might actually be beneficial to us.
jeduk
Community Member 7 years ago***Hackers stole a casino's high-roller database through a thermometer in the lobby fish tank***
http://www.businessinsider.de/hackers-stole-a-casinos-database-through-…
But London...
Show full comment***Hackers stole a casino's high-roller database through a thermometer in the lobby fish tank***
http://www.businessinsider.de/hackers-stole-a-casinos-database-through-…
But London Assembly are much too clever to let that happen! They don't have a fish tank, so there!.And they would never gamble with our data. I'm sure. The councillors are skilled and experienced in data processing and communications.They have explained in detail why their syatem is much more secure than say, Talktalk, Facebook, Yahoo!, Ebay, Uber, ...Haven't they? Haven't they?
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years agoI worry about data being misused, sold, or hacked. Public bodies don't always have a good track record on this. Councils have in the past used powers to inappropriately pry on their residents. I'm very concerned about being spied on and...
Show full commentI worry about data being misused, sold, or hacked. Public bodies don't always have a good track record on this. Councils have in the past used powers to inappropriately pry on their residents. I'm very concerned about being spied on and this spying being used for the covert control of public places, eg to fine people for recycling mistakes or elimate the homeless.
You say eg to detect free parking spaces - I imagine in practice many coucils would love more data to issue fines. (I don't own a car)
The Mayor needs to ensure our data is only collected with our permission and that the reasons for gathering data is explicit, transparent and limited to a specific purpose like enabling good planning and provision of public services. Also that any data is secure, anonymous and not sold on to 3rd parties for commercial reasons.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years agoThe first point about movement of vehicles, car parking, etc, sounds like forward thinking, sensible planning which one would expect TfL to engage in. The second is more vague and is to do with people so this needs to be separated out from...
Show full commentThe first point about movement of vehicles, car parking, etc, sounds like forward thinking, sensible planning which one would expect TfL to engage in. The second is more vague and is to do with people so this needs to be separated out from the first point and a more thought, imagination and consultation given as to how TfL approaches people. I’m sure tech (apps) will play a part but some personal contact as well (arrange to meet people for a coffee and a chat?).
Show less of commentLondonKid
Community Member 7 years agoI don't have any problems with sensor data and I think using it would be beneficial but this is of course on the assumption that it is purely sensor data and not linked to and completely separate from any personal data also held and the use...
Show full commentI don't have any problems with sensor data and I think using it would be beneficial but this is of course on the assumption that it is purely sensor data and not linked to and completely separate from any personal data also held and the use and type of this sensor data is made public.
Show less of commentBaba
Community Member 7 years ago1) Data should not be able to identify individuals and their personnel habits (Like your Oyster Card's and ANPR Cameras that many parties currently have access to and use daily to track POI).
Show full comment2) ALL data stored should be directly accessible...
1) Data should not be able to identify individuals and their personnel habits (Like your Oyster Card's and ANPR Cameras that many parties currently have access to and use daily to track POI).
2) ALL data stored should be directly accessible by the public.
3) Potential for tracking of individuals should make obtaining the data in the future illegal and follow an immediate cease of activities.
Violation of any of these (Including by "Authorised parties") will lead to action by the public.
Show less of commentjeduk
Community Member 7 years agoIt may be important to specify that the data collected is not of a standard acceptable in a court of law. There are cases where "sciencey" or "technological" evidence has been accepted by a jury on attestation of an expert witness later...
Show full commentIt may be important to specify that the data collected is not of a standard acceptable in a court of law. There are cases where "sciencey" or "technological" evidence has been accepted by a jury on attestation of an expert witness later proved wrong. Most devices and process for the collection of sensory data are seen as useful because they are cheap and to prove them to a standard of legal evidence might make their cost prohibitive.
Show less of commentBaba
Community Member 7 years agoYet.
Oyster, CCTV and ANPR ARE used in court to prosecute.
slandron
Community Member 7 years agoAbsolutely fine as long as the data collected does not allow to identify individuals. Any technology helping us with a better quality of life without prying into individuals is actually very welcome.
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years agoWhen we are concerned about Facebook needlessly grabbing personal data then we should be worried about any such action.
What is this to be used for? Will the data be indentifiable to an individual (so that his or her movements could be...
Show full commentWhen we are concerned about Facebook needlessly grabbing personal data then we should be worried about any such action.
What is this to be used for? Will the data be indentifiable to an individual (so that his or her movements could be tracked everywhere)? What controls and limits are placed on the data gathers, particularly in the like to the incoming GDPR regulations?
Why do people think this is "in the public domain"? Where is the cut off between private & public information?
It very much depends on the sensors: do you elect to wear one or broadcast data? Or is it the intention to actively monitor people regardless of whether they wish to be monitored or not?
Such data is powerful and to a very large degree owned by the person(s) to whom it apples.
Show less of commentLettuceLover
Community Member 7 years agoSounds reasonable as long as its not abused.
Caroline Starkey
Community Member 7 years agoIf there’s money to spend (from our taxes) - spend it on staff and resources to improve our City, parks and open spaces, so we can all simply enjoy our environment.
Why are we obsessed with gathering data? There’s enough monitoring of...
Show full commentIf there’s money to spend (from our taxes) - spend it on staff and resources to improve our City, parks and open spaces, so we can all simply enjoy our environment.
Why are we obsessed with gathering data? There’s enough monitoring of our lives already. Monitoring tools can be used to monitor citizens’ every move, in the wrong hands this can easily translate to harassment and discrimination.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years ago“Please sir, can I be spied on more ?”
Show full commentSaid no one ever ....
“Please sir, can I be spied on more ?”
Show less of commentSaid no one ever ....
TerryM
Community Member 7 years agoHaving worked with electronic devices I know just how easy it is to misuse data that is collected by enterprises run by politicians. It does not matter how many promises that are made, if it suits their purpose they will use any data...
Show full commentHaving worked with electronic devices I know just how easy it is to misuse data that is collected by enterprises run by politicians. It does not matter how many promises that are made, if it suits their purpose they will use any data collecting device in a way not legally approved. I have no problem if the data collected is not traceable to me or my vehicle. I do not want big brother watching my every move. Unless the law concerning this proposed collection of data makes it illegal to use any of my data collected for any other reason than to assist with traffic movements and similar, I am totally opposed to this hunt for everybody's data. I am refusing my bank and others request to allow them to let others know my password. After years of being told how we should protect our passwords, the government have brought in this obtuse banking law. If you agree to allow your data to be harvested by 'Uncle Tom Cobbley and all' and do not refuse their request anybody could get their hands on your data. I have concerns in allowing politicians to know my private details. The only way to stop these concerns is to make sure that no private details are disclosed at any time, as a result of these sensors.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 7 years agoWell put Terry, I am wholeheartedly against anymore invading our privacy. We all know that they will ultimately be used for more than we will be told in the beginning as that’s how these insidious plans start out. Get the public to agree to...
Show full commentWell put Terry, I am wholeheartedly against anymore invading our privacy. We all know that they will ultimately be used for more than we will be told in the beginning as that’s how these insidious plans start out. Get the public to agree to their implementation for innocent enough reasons , then after they’re installed at our expense the ‘extra’ uses and abilities of these devices are used to the detriment of our privacy and freedoms.
Show less of commentr.w.page
Community Member 7 years agoI don't support as the data will inevitably be collected and sold for advertising and marketing purposes - so not just used to to detect free parking spaces, but type of user, car make etc etc and I think this level of monitoring of the...
Show full commentI don't support as the data will inevitably be collected and sold for advertising and marketing purposes - so not just used to to detect free parking spaces, but type of user, car make etc etc and I think this level of monitoring of the public is an invasion of privacy
Show less of commentMicrobe
Community Member 7 years agoLooks like this is police state surveillance becoming more and more evident in the UK. We've already seen how our data can be sold on e.g. with Facebook's disgraceful behaviour presently being investigated. Personal data has been mislaid or...
Show full commentLooks like this is police state surveillance becoming more and more evident in the UK. We've already seen how our data can be sold on e.g. with Facebook's disgraceful behaviour presently being investigated. Personal data has been mislaid or can have mistakes in it that compromises 'owners' of the data. There really is very worrying issues about security of our data with and by whoever operates 'surveillance' and digital and other data collecting systems.
Show less of comment