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  • Keeping safe from extremism

    Do you think Londoners can play a role in keeping people safe from extremism and radicalisation?

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    Do you think Londoners can play a role in keeping people safe from extremism and radicalisation? What support or advice do Londoners need to do this?

    The discussion ran from 01 October 2018 - 14 November 2018

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    Comments (54)

    Avatar for -

    Who defines "extremism" or "radicalisation" ?

    Currently some "extreme" or "radical" positions are promoted by socially approved campaigners.

     

    The only thing here that should be criminal is physical harm (or inciting others to commit...

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    Who defines "extremism" or "radicalisation" ?

    Currently some "extreme" or "radical" positions are promoted by socially approved campaigners.

     

    The only thing here that should be criminal is physical harm (or inciting others to commit harm).

    In a genuinely free society, "Hate" crime is an abomination - as it is defined by whoever reports something they disapprove of.

     

    "Hate crime" statistics are nonsense - as they are based on unsubstantiated "reports".

    Since when did mind-reading become "evidence" of a crime ???

     

    The criminals who stab people should be banged up - not people who hurt feelings on the internet.

     

     

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    Thanks everyone for sharing your views.

    Some of you have commented on what the term extremism means.  It's described by the Governmnent in the  Prevent Strategy  as "vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs. We also include in our definition of extremism calls for the death of members of our armed forces”. Radicalisation is described as "the process by which a person comes to support terrorism and forms of extremism leading to terrorism."

    What more can be done for Londoners to safeguard people from extremism and radicalisation?

    Should more be done to encourage Londoners to refer concerns to the authorities?

    Talk London

    Avatar for -

    And as for Islamic fundamentalist extremism it has to be understood in its specificity, and distinguished from people's geopolitical views and the Muslim religion in general. This kind of extremism is extremist not for its abstract...

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    And as for Islamic fundamentalist extremism it has to be understood in its specificity, and distinguished from people's geopolitical views and the Muslim religion in general. This kind of extremism is extremist not for its abstract political or religious views and generational affiliations with other countries, but for wanting to wage war against random people in Britain, who are considered somehow responsible for what has been happening in the Middle East. We can't be suspicious of all Muslim people because of a tiny minority that has such crazy and murderous views, or consider all Muslims responsible for that minority. Otherwise we are creating a paranoid and discriminatory society, and that's really not good.

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    Also I agree with the comments above that 'extremism' is a very lose term that lumps very different things together. Some people think it is extremist to have views about wars that do not match Britain's interests. And others think it is...

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    Also I agree with the comments above that 'extremism' is a very lose term that lumps very different things together. Some people think it is extremist to have views about wars that do not match Britain's interests. And others think it is extremist to have political views that are critical of our current democracy. It depends what the criticism is followed by. If people want to replace democracy with fascism, a police state, and mass expulsion of populations or mass murder then yes they are extremist. Those people should be challenged and not be allowed to promote their hateful views (even though we now have one of those people in the US presidency!) Those are the same kind of people who tell people on buses to 'go back to their own country' or perpetrate even more violent attacks. But criticism of current affairs in itself is not extremist as long as it doesn't group populations and people as 'good' and 'bad' and doesn't promote violence and harm against entire communities.

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    Londoners have above all a responsibility to educate themselves and others about history and geopolitical issues, and develop a nuanced understanding of the world and people from different places, without taking a polarised position, and...

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    Londoners have above all a responsibility to educate themselves and others about history and geopolitical issues, and develop a nuanced understanding of the world and people from different places, without taking a polarised position, and being able to see contradictions and forms of violence on all sides, while being aware of imperialist hierarchies and Britain's role in them. There are no 'good' and 'bad' people or religions and community groups. But there are power relations and we cannot allow to perpetuate the oppression and discrimination against those who are 'different' (esp from non-European backgrounds).

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    Avatar for -

    In answer to the London Talk question: 

    Do you think extremism and radicalisation is something that can be prevented? Or should this simply be policed?

    Is prevention of the issue as important as policing the issue?

    Policing is more of a...

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    In answer to the London Talk question: 

    Do you think extremism and radicalisation is something that can be prevented? Or should this simply be policed?

    Is prevention of the issue as important as policing the issue?

    Policing is more of a 'quick fix', prevention is key because it nips it in the bud before it happens. Education in schools (from an early age), peace talks with communities in UK and abroad. 

    Prejudice is often the result of frustration, jealousy and resentment (sometimes boredom too). The key is to focus on investing properly in our police and NHS. If these institutions worked more efficiently society on the whole would be healthier, safer (and happier).

    Happy people don't tend to commit terrorist attacks or hate crimes do they?

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    Avatar for -

    We need to do something to counter the "bystander effect".  There are so many videos of hate crimes now with people standing around doing nothing about it.  I'm the type to jump in headfirst and challenge the person before considering the...

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    We need to do something to counter the "bystander effect".  There are so many videos of hate crimes now with people standing around doing nothing about it.  I'm the type to jump in headfirst and challenge the person before considering the potential consequences to myself (and I have done so in the past, although I now think I should have spoken to the victim before doing anything).  How do we train people in what to do in these situations?

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    Avatar for - American pika

    Integration needs to happen in the least with the children in our communities, some schools seem so divided, i.e. different religions and races all together rather than integrated.  If we can address education in the young and help show...

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    Integration needs to happen in the least with the children in our communities, some schools seem so divided, i.e. different religions and races all together rather than integrated.  If we can address education in the young and help show them that integration is normal and the way to go, then at least perhaps for the next generation we can have more harmony, keep up the segregation in schools and lacking education about each other and the future generations have no stand.

    Also, this would help language integration, it's really hard to connect when you can't speak to same language...

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    Avatar for -

    hate crimes and extremism are totally different and should not be considered together

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    hate crimes and extremism are totally different and should not be considered together

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    Avatar for -

    Hi Julesandlola. Thanks for sharing your views. 

    How would you define hate crime and extremism? 

    Do you think extremism and radicalisation is something that can be prevented? Or should this simply be policed? Is prevention as important as policing the issue?

    Talk London

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    Fair communication panels and security

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    Fair communication panels and security

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    Avatar for - Avatar image

    Thank you for your comment. Could you expand on this please?

    MOPAC

    Avatar for -

    Many people believe Islam is most at risk of terrorist or extremist activity. Any place of public worship with a serious drug problem is at risk of this violent behaviour because it is usually associated with weapons and demands for money...

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    Many people believe Islam is most at risk of terrorist or extremist activity. Any place of public worship with a serious drug problem is at risk of this violent behaviour because it is usually associated with weapons and demands for money with menaces.Schools have knife arches and a dedicated police presence and these measures may eventually be adopted by places of public interest such as museums, churches, theatres. We will all have to accept some restrictions and heightened security in the interests of safety. Airports are not the only venues for drug dealing.

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    London  is now and has been for a long time, a diverse and inclusive city. However I am seeing an increase in xenophobic rhetoric and it's stoked by the media and divisive politics. Playing on the fear of 'the other' is one of the factors...

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    London  is now and has been for a long time, a diverse and inclusive city. However I am seeing an increase in xenophobic rhetoric and it's stoked by the media and divisive politics. Playing on the fear of 'the other' is one of the factors that increases hate crime and political rhetoric that uses this merely emboldens those would would otherwise not act. We need civility back

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    Avatar for -

    Yes, "Playing on the fear of the other" is one of the biggest problems of our time .....

    ... exacerbated by divisive "identity politics" that:

    - seeks out differences

    - insists on putting people into groups

    - labels them as a "community...

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    Yes, "Playing on the fear of the other" is one of the biggest problems of our time .....

    ... exacerbated by divisive "identity politics" that:

    - seeks out differences

    - insists on putting people into groups

    - labels them as a "community"

    - then implying that one of that group is a "spokesman" with the same experiences and aspirations as others of the same "identity".

    Then seeks advantage for some groups - based on a hierachy - mostly around a perceived "victim status".

    This is the very antithesis of an "equal" or "fair" society that the proponents claim to support.

    Yet anyone who questions minority group privilege is howled down with lazy epithets.

     

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    Avatar for -

    Thanks everyone for taking part in this discussion.

    Do you think extremism and radicalisation is something that can be prevented? Or should this simply be policed?

    Is prevention of the issue as important as policing the issue?

    Talk London

    Avatar for - American pika

    policing doesn't feel right to me, from the image given of the police of late, and their reduction in funds, I wouldn't feel confident going to the police, they need more support to do a good job, good intentions, but when squeezed, humans...

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    policing doesn't feel right to me, from the image given of the police of late, and their reduction in funds, I wouldn't feel confident going to the police, they need more support to do a good job, good intentions, but when squeezed, humans only have a limited capacity

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    Avatar for - Ringed seal

    It shouldn't be policed at all. People are free to have their views, its what two generations of this country fought and died for.

    Also why do you target only Muslims? why is glorifying the IRA, and arguing for republicanism and other...

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    It shouldn't be policed at all. People are free to have their views, its what two generations of this country fought and died for.

    Also why do you target only Muslims? why is glorifying the IRA, and arguing for republicanism and other forms of Irish extremism exempt? There are lots of Irish pubs in London with stuff glorifying the IRA yet no one is arrested, now of their material is seized nor any content taken down. Surely the law should be the same for all?

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    Avatar for -

    The greatest evil in society is the average pleb or those that impose democracy of the most stupid 51%

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    The greatest evil in society is the average pleb or those that impose democracy of the most stupid 51%

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    Avatar for -

    The greatest evil in society is those who think their views are better than everybody else's.  We all need to learn to compromise.  Democracy is not only about having the vote.  It is also about learning to respect the result and to respect...

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    The greatest evil in society is those who think their views are better than everybody else's.  We all need to learn to compromise.  Democracy is not only about having the vote.  It is also about learning to respect the result and to respect those people who think and vote in a different way from ourselves.

    It is this very denegration of "the other" amongst ourselves that ultimately leads to extremism.

    I volunteer at a social activity for older people.  Politics comes up every now and then.  Imagine if I started calling half of them "stupid"?

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    Avatar for -

    exactly what I mean.

    The most stupid 51% are the most opinionated and fascist

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    exactly what I mean.

    The most stupid 51% are the most opinionated and fascist

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    Tolerance is the key, but people who indulge in these acts don't feel it applies to them.  There should be billboards everywhere with phone numbers etc to advise people whom to contact if they have concerns with regard to these issues and...

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    Tolerance is the key, but people who indulge in these acts don't feel it applies to them.  There should be billboards everywhere with phone numbers etc to advise people whom to contact if they have concerns with regard to these issues and anonymity should be respected.

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    Avatar for - Staghorn coral

    Yes good idea

    Avatar for -

    As H. G. Wells said, "Our true nationality is Mankind".

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    As H. G. Wells said, "Our true nationality is Mankind".

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    Avatar for - Tiger

    all of us have a responsibility to try & reduce extremism & radicalisation and to work against terrorism of any kind not just in london but everywhere. I would like more info/advice on what to look for & where to report any info

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    all of us have a responsibility to try & reduce extremism & radicalisation and to work against terrorism of any kind not just in london but everywhere. I would like more info/advice on what to look for & where to report any info

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    Avatar for - Vaquita

    The Uk is the 6th biggest exporter of arms on the planet. Helping to blow up foreigners is likely to create terrorists who hate the UK.

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    The Uk is the 6th biggest exporter of arms on the planet. Helping to blow up foreigners is likely to create terrorists who hate the UK.

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    Avatar for -

    Very well said.

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    Very well said.

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    Avatar for - Ringed seal

    So you would put all those people working in manufacturing out of a job?

    Cars are the biggest killer of children, should stop making those?

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    So you would put all those people working in manufacturing out of a job?

    Cars are the biggest killer of children, should stop making those?

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    We must get rid of khan crime and everything nasty is rising alarmingly so under his watch

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    We must get rid of khan crime and everything nasty is rising alarmingly so under his watch

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    Can you make the link between government cuts to the police and rising crime? Sidiq Khan has no say over police budgets at all, that is the responsibilty of the government.

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    Can you make the link between government cuts to the police and rising crime? Sidiq Khan has no say over police budgets at all, that is the responsibilty of the government.

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    Avatar for - Monarch butterfly

    Then I suggest you use your vote in the next Mayoral Election and stop spouting your very own imbeciic nastiness.

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    Then I suggest you use your vote in the next Mayoral Election and stop spouting your very own imbeciic nastiness.

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    Signs and education about the impact on individuals as well as victims are important to allow people to recognise when a problem might be developing and what actions to take. 

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    Signs and education about the impact on individuals as well as victims are important to allow people to recognise when a problem might be developing and what actions to take. 

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