Identity in London
Do you feel like a Londoner? If not, why not? What terms do you use to define yourself? Maybe you feel like a North Londoner, or a Southerner first, or identify with yours or your parents’ place of origin, or a religious group.
How does your gender, disability, marital status, race, religion or sexual orientation define how you see your place in London? What things make you feel more like a Londoner?
The discussion ran from 15 June 2017 - 15 September 2017
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Community Member 8 years agoI honestly don't know what it is nowadays that qualifies you to be classed as a Londoner but in my opinion you need to have been born in one of the boroughs.
My father & his forefathers were born in Islington and while I now live in...
Show full commentI honestly don't know what it is nowadays that qualifies you to be classed as a Londoner but in my opinion you need to have been born in one of the boroughs.
My father & his forefathers were born in Islington and while I now live in east London (Bethnal Green) & have done for over 25 years I was born and brought up in Romford (London Borough of Havering but with an Essex post code) so have always considered myself to be a little bit Londoner & a little bit Essex Girl. There is still the are you 'North/South of the River' aspect but other than that I don't define myself or others by gender, disability, race, religion or anything else - that shouldn't matter to anyone.
I'm very proud of this city and while I think change is necessary to move with the times I feel that we need to take a step back & look very carefully at everything, including the basic infrastructure of london: the capital is too crowded, we cannot house, educate, employ or give medical aid to everyone here; traffic/pollution is at ridiculous levels; every high street looks the same in that they all have the same branded shops (when somewhere fresh/new does pop up it gets eaten up by the big players - planners need to say no sometimes. Residential areas need to be protected from the developers who see £ signs only). Our emergency services are at breaking point and something will crack.
Show less of commentjohncruddas
Community Member 7 years agoAgree with all tjat .problem is totally unchecked immigration into london had destroyed our lovely city.too much of everything.far far too many cars .should be more pedestrianised areas.oxf ord st a good example .only vehicles inside london...
Show full commentAgree with all tjat .problem is totally unchecked immigration into london had destroyed our lovely city.too much of everything.far far too many cars .should be more pedestrianised areas.oxf ord st a good example .only vehicles inside london should be buses blavk cabs and cycles clear the rest out make london people friendly
Show less of commentkeela319
Community Member 8 years agoWhen I moved to London in 1993, it was a fantastic and wonderful city: No night buses between 0230 and around 0400 meant that one could walk out on the streets and not see a soul.
Show full commentThere was also plenty of wasteland: brilliant, exciting...
When I moved to London in 1993, it was a fantastic and wonderful city: No night buses between 0230 and around 0400 meant that one could walk out on the streets and not see a soul.
There was also plenty of wasteland: brilliant, exciting, INTERESTING (above all) and allowing wildlife to flourish. This was found from Liverpool Street Station all the way in and around. Spitalfields, Brick Lane, Hoxton, Hackney, Stratford, Tottenham, Archway, Wembley, Paddington (the list goes on: all destroyed and gone for ever). Look at pictures of London from the 1990s
Now, thanks to Boris and (sadly to say) Mr Khan, London is a monster of high rises, a forbidding "city", rich enclaves with fancy wine bars and coffee shops. A sleek, irritatingly sterile city of steel, glass and concrete with "green" stuff moved to "designer trees"
Given half a chance, I'd leave today (not currently possible due to personal relationship and lack of social housing elsewhere). London has become a dump where every ounce of former wasteland is being "harvested" for cash, and where only the rich can enjoy a piece of "the good" life.
Show less of commentJoggerKeith
Community Member 8 years agoLondon is very big and varied place with lots of communities. I would highlight one basic major divide that affects the cohesiveness and involvement of a very large proportion of its population.
An address is the most basic and tangible...
Show full commentLondon is very big and varied place with lots of communities. I would highlight one basic major divide that affects the cohesiveness and involvement of a very large proportion of its population.
An address is the most basic and tangible description of where you live and identity. If you live in the outer boroughs with a postal address of Essex, Herts, Kent , Surrey or even Middlesex there is an ambiguity about where you come from. I live in Romford but describe where I live as east London because that is what describes my environment both social and physical and my day to day connections - but to say I live in Romford, Essex gives a completely different impression. Indeed many locals deny they live in London and possibly have no routine relationship with the rest of the city. But talk to a resident of Newham, which was also part of Essex until 1965 they would doubtless say they were Londoners - the only difference is their postal address.
The Victorians did things differently, they applied London as the address for the whole conurbation (as it was then) even outside the limits of the London county . It was only in the 20th century when people moved out to new suburbs to escape the city that a culture grew to deny a connection with London - a form of snobbery which still seems to persist.
The outer boroughs share similar issues - ageing infrastructure & housing, overstretched services but do not identify with each other. Havering and Hillingdon, for example, could be in different countries as far as many of their residents are concerned and often do not identify with the issues of central London -its 'another place' to them. But the outer boroughs are vital for the future strategic plans for London
Greater London was established as a regional authority 52 years ago so I think it is about time all the conurbation was fully embraced. I would advocate creating a new London county and using London as an address as a way of fully unifying ALL the city.
Show less of commentoliverg8sr
Community Member 8 years agoI came down to London from Derby in the 1990s and live in Wandsworth.
Show full commentI love, and feel part of, London precisely because it is not like the other parts of the UK. It is liberal and outward-facing with very many of our friends from Europe...
I came down to London from Derby in the 1990s and live in Wandsworth.
Show less of commentI love, and feel part of, London precisely because it is not like the other parts of the UK. It is liberal and outward-facing with very many of our friends from Europe, and the wider world, living here.
Small problems like air quality can be solved through regulation and regaining a sense of proportion.
Big problems like the stifling nostalgia for a time when we were killing our European neighbours in major wars, and the arrogance, intolerance and isolationism that this inspires, will be more tricky to resolve, Fortunately in London we are less blighted by this than the rest of the UK.
I would be very delighted if London could become a city state within Europe, rather than an alien body in this country.
trevor E
Community Member 8 years agoI am a so called "Londoner" but I'm not proud of it.
Show full comment21st London leaves much to be desired in my eyes.
Take a stroll for example, through Oxford circus and take note of how modern and attractive the shops are.
But if you divert your eyes...
I am a so called "Londoner" but I'm not proud of it.
Show less of comment21st London leaves much to be desired in my eyes.
Take a stroll for example, through Oxford circus and take note of how modern and attractive the shops are.
But if you divert your eyes away from the nice and shiny shops, you'll see people sitting on the floor wrapped up in a sleeping bag.
How can that happen in a country that is one of the richest in the world?
Where ever that money is going, it's certainly not going towards helping get people off the streets out of sleeping bags and into jobs and homes.
I can't feel proud to be a Londoner while "Londoners" are left to sleep on the streets of London while Billionaires own huge houses all over the city and working class people are so poor they have no alternative other than to sleep on the streets.
One could argue that these people "choose" to sleep on the streets, which may be true in some cases but not all.
It is more than safe to say that sometimes people start off on top but due to unforeseen circumstances, they lose everything and end up living on the streets and many stay there for a long time (not that they like being homeless) but rather cause there is nowhere else to go.
What kind of government stands by while the common people they are elected to serve fall by the wayside and stay there?
Am I proud to be a Londoner?
No, I'm ashamed.
Mrmole
Community Member 8 years agoBorn and raised in North London. Lived in Haringey, Barnet, Hounslow, Westminster and now Sutton. Most of my contemporaries moved out of London on retirement but I moved in. There was a specific reason for that and I quite enjoyed living in...
Show full commentBorn and raised in North London. Lived in Haringey, Barnet, Hounslow, Westminster and now Sutton. Most of my contemporaries moved out of London on retirement but I moved in. There was a specific reason for that and I quite enjoyed living in Central London at the time for all sorts of different reasons. However, I was lured away by a number of things. A house instead of a flat. A garden instead of a window box, breathable air instead of diesel fumes, the sound of birds instead of emergency vehicle sirens every 10 minutes. My hearing has now recovered a little bit and my lungs cleaner but despite having a reasonable train service nearby it does necessitate having a car if you dont want to be marooned in an oasis of trees and open spaces, nice as that is. I am happy I still live in London and can still call myself a Londoner.
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 8 years agoSome of you have mentioned that living in outer London affects how you feel about London and consider yourselves to be from Essex, Kent or Surrey for example, even if your address falls within the Greater London boundary.
Why is this?
Do transport links affect how much you feel like a Londoner? What about those who work in London but live outside?
Talk London
Mrmole
Community Member 8 years agoI dont ever think I live in Surrey. I live in the London Borough of Sutton which is, of course, a part of London yet my postal address states Surrey. I know this is all to do with how the post works and is the same for many other areas e.g...
Show full commentI dont ever think I live in Surrey. I live in the London Borough of Sutton which is, of course, a part of London yet my postal address states Surrey. I know this is all to do with how the post works and is the same for many other areas e.g Middlesex, Herts etc but nevertheless it can be a little annoying sometimes. As for transport links into central London I have a reasonable train service available so that adds to the sense of belonging (to London). Sadly I cant really say the same for buses which are sparse and infrequent at the best of times.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoI work in London but live in Surbiton, 'the Queen of the suburbs...'. With the excellent facilities around here for shopping and leisure, I tend to identify myself with being more of a 'Kingstonian' than a Londoner per se.
Although having...
Show full commentI work in London but live in Surbiton, 'the Queen of the suburbs...'. With the excellent facilities around here for shopping and leisure, I tend to identify myself with being more of a 'Kingstonian' than a Londoner per se.
Although having moved to London from the Midlands some 40 years ago, and lived the vast majority of my life here, I don't consider myself a Londoner as I wasn't actually born in London. Psychologically having to get an overground train into town also makes me feel that I don't actually live in London, whereas if I just hopped on a tube or a bus to get into the centre of town I would probably feel more like a Londoner.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoI have always considered myself to be an Essex person rather than a "Londoner" per se. The formation of the GLC in 1965 was not universally popular.
"London" tended to be the place where I worked and visited cinemas, theatres, restaurants...
Show full commentI have always considered myself to be an Essex person rather than a "Londoner" per se. The formation of the GLC in 1965 was not universally popular.
"London" tended to be the place where I worked and visited cinemas, theatres, restaurants.
"London" is changing due to pressure from population and it is hard to see where this is going.
We need more "satellite towns" with new housing, transport links and jobs.
Show less of commentJoggerKeith
Community Member 8 years agoNHW touches on an issue that causes me frustration. It is now 52 years since the Greater London boundaries were established,. Yet many living in the outer boroughs live in a ambiguous state and don't identify with the rest of the city. A...
Show full commentNHW touches on an issue that causes me frustration. It is now 52 years since the Greater London boundaries were established,. Yet many living in the outer boroughs live in a ambiguous state and don't identify with the rest of the city. A huge proportion of London's population do not even have London postal address nor a London telephone number . When asked where I live I say east London, because that describes the environment around me , the administrative and economic reality - and what is shown on maps ! But my address is Essex which is as far as many people understand or care about.
I have lived in the same borough all my life - even before 1965. I can understand my address is one thing but where I actually live is another. I feel like a Londoner - apart from my working life in the City, I have always enjoyed the opportunities in many aspects that London provides, even more now as a holder of a Freedom Pass. I am always mystified by other who don't feel the same. I also appreciate having easy access to the Essex countryside but I cannot identify with the social culture.
Things as simple as signs saying 'Welcome to London' to those entering by road to mirror those for the adjoining counties in the opposite direction would help. Arguably the only thing that is a shared identity is the TfL roundel. In the meantime many of the outer boroughs have areas in decline as housing stock and streets developed in the 1920's and 30s ages and no longer work well for the 21st century. The problems associated with the inner city are now migrating outwards , but nobody really seems to recognise this or at least is addressing it.
There is a perception that the Mayor and and GLA focus on central London - they should work to make London be inclusive of all its residents.
Show less of commentjohncruddas
Community Member 8 years agoI notice many references to air quality ,which is appalling .so i wonder why the mayor and tfl has unleashed 30k plus uber cars .london is clogged up almost 24/7,the mayor he said he would deal with this .with gig/black economy growing...
Show full commentI notice many references to air quality ,which is appalling .so i wonder why the mayor and tfl has unleashed 30k plus uber cars .london is clogged up almost 24/7,the mayor he said he would deal with this .with gig/black economy growing unchecked tfaffic and air quality will become unbearable .this is a health hazard for londoners .perhaps if areas were clear of traffic.create more open areas for londoners to socialize as in other big cities it would be better ,areas where perhaps famillies could meet ,the way things are now gridlock will be the result .meanwhile the mayor ignores these problems hoping theyll go away .THEY WONT and london will be a mess
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 8 years agoHi Johncruddas
Thanks for your comment. We asked our Transport team for a response to your questions about Uber cars.
"The Mayor is concerned about the number of private hire vehicles (PHVs) in the capital, and believes that the current growth rate of private hire drivers is unsustainable for London. Transport for London (TfL) is legally obliged to issue a licence to anyone that fits the criteria for licensing, with no powers to cap licence numbers. Any change to this position would require a change to primary legislation.
The Mayor, the Deputy Mayor for Transport, Valerie Shawcross, and the TfL Commissioner, Mike Brown, have all raised this issue with Government Ministers and the Department for Transport. The Mayor will continue to press Government to provide TfL with appropriate powers to address this important issue."
Talk London
keela319
Community Member 8 years agoThose Uber (or whatever "private hire" cars with a TfL plaque), regularly park where I live and leave dirty tissues, dirty bottles with pee and other items, or leave their engines running whilst parked. The Mayor may wish to issue a ban on...
Show full commentThose Uber (or whatever "private hire" cars with a TfL plaque), regularly park where I live and leave dirty tissues, dirty bottles with pee and other items, or leave their engines running whilst parked. The Mayor may wish to issue a ban on private hire cars as well as stop the silly drive to deliver parcels and shopping outside normal working hours (Mon-Fri 0800 - 1800, Sat 0800 - 1300 and none on Sundays and Bank Holidays). But then, I might be mistaken here, for that nothing at all has come from the Mayor in relation to curbing excessive business enterprise. It appears, he is in line with Central Government to FORCE through anything that MAKES MONEY.
Show less of commentLexM
Community Member 8 years agoYeah I guess so, it is a short hand for saying where you live and that you like it.
I've seen people proudly declare they are a Londoner one the first day off the plane as they arrive in their new flat. So I guess which Zone you are in is...
Show full commentYeah I guess so, it is a short hand for saying where you live and that you like it.
I've seen people proudly declare they are a Londoner one the first day off the plane as they arrive in their new flat. So I guess which Zone you are in is probably the most telling, that or how much success/luck you've had climbing the ladder while being here.
Also like so many things it's way less cool when the government tries to get 'with it'.
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 8 years agoSome of you have highlighted that your identity as a Londoner can be affected by your ethnic background, race or religion. Unfortunately, this can be a negative experience for many.
What things make you feel more welcome in a city, or more connected to other Londoners in your local area or your city as a whole?
johncruddas
Community Member 8 years agoWhy allow ghettoes to develop as in whitechapel .this is not conducive to making people feel like londoners .many of these people dont speak english ,how can they be expected to feel like londoners if they cant even have a conversation...
Show full commentWhy allow ghettoes to develop as in whitechapel .this is not conducive to making people feel like londoners .many of these people dont speak english ,how can they be expected to feel like londoners if they cant even have a conversation with indigenous locals
Show less of commentkeela319
Community Member 8 years agoGood afternoon,
Show full commentwhat USED to make me feel hugely connected was the old gas works at St Pancras, seeing (and smelling) the gas, the rising (and lowering) of the huge tanks. Seeing ladies of the night hanging round Camley Street...
Good afternoon,
what USED to make me feel hugely connected was the old gas works at St Pancras, seeing (and smelling) the gas, the rising (and lowering) of the huge tanks. Seeing ladies of the night hanging round Camley Street, experiencing the night buses (gapped around 0230-0400) that might or might not turn up, travelling from "Hackney Central" to "Stratford Low Level" through wonderful wasteland; Camden Town with its truly dodgy markets.
THAT WAS LONDON THAT INSPIRED!
London now, is a soulless place, full of wine bars and fancy developments. Shame!
Show less of commenttonyjhc
Community Member 8 years agoI came to London in 1972 aged 25 and have lived here for over 45 years .
I love the 24/7 vibrancy of London life and the convenience of the transport system.
Not so good is the air pollution
AW
Community Member 8 years agoBorn in Balham, bombed out and evacuated, brought up all over England and Wales. Came South for work, university, then to London for work.
Show full commentI appear conventional - happily married, family, Quaker, was a gardener, walker, nurse. But I can't...
Born in Balham, bombed out and evacuated, brought up all over England and Wales. Came South for work, university, then to London for work.
Show less of commentI appear conventional - happily married, family, Quaker, was a gardener, walker, nurse. But I can't bear the stifling prejudice among friends and relatives and so much of the public in the rest of the country. London is too crowded and the density of the population is increasingly unbearable. The air quality is appalling but it is easier to breathe politically here.
Yes, I am a Londoner.
plinkyplonk
Community Member 8 years agoYes, as you say, it is too crowded. You should ask yourself why.
Show full commentI speak as another born Londoner but as I have lived here all my life I see changes for the worse as everyone from everywhere has piled in during the last decade or so...
Yes, as you say, it is too crowded. You should ask yourself why.
Show less of commentI speak as another born Londoner but as I have lived here all my life I see changes for the worse as everyone from everywhere has piled in during the last decade or so.
Still, the government like more people in as more money is collected.
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoWe're a young family, English dad and newborn, German mum. We definitely feelbhappy and at home in London, and relish the diversity and opportunities this city offers. Unfortunately is seems like the rest of the country is very much moving...
Show full commentWe're a young family, English dad and newborn, German mum. We definitely feelbhappy and at home in London, and relish the diversity and opportunities this city offers. Unfortunately is seems like the rest of the country is very much moving away from this.
Show less of commentjohncruddas
Community Member 8 years agoWe are not moving away from this .we are leaving an outdated undemocratic leviathan .we are not leaving europe just the eu.london wont change much .what we need to do is get control of illegals that are blighting our city .london has always...
Show full commentWe are not moving away from this .we are leaving an outdated undemocratic leviathan .we are not leaving europe just the eu.london wont change much .what we need to do is get control of illegals that are blighting our city .london has always been a city full of diversity in my time i remember large influxes of jewish people,italians,greeks,turks caribbeans,al wonderful people and made their mark in london.but what we have now is people out for what they can get not interested in integration or community unless its their own .all the aforementioned people brought their own religion ,customs and lovely food .london was always a wonderful place rich in culture and community spirit .i hope this never changes
Show less of commentThe Cyclist
Community Member 8 years agoTalking about equality and inclusion mr mayor don't you think it would be a fair and honest way to deal with things by actually letting all Londoners know about this site, I mean most decisions made by you are carried out on the back of...
Show full commentTalking about equality and inclusion mr mayor don't you think it would be a fair and honest way to deal with things by actually letting all Londoners know about this site, I mean most decisions made by you are carried out on the back of what is said in these "blogs" if Londoners do not know about them and that they can have a say then they are missing out and only the people who really want to get involved do so because they get an email as they are registered on this site. Take the ULEZ for example 15000 had a say of which only 10000 were in favour, that hardly constitutes Londoners does it with over 8.4 million of us.......Don't you think that a mail out to each home would put this unfair practice to bed and give Every Londoner a say?
Show less of comment