Policing hate, extremism and terror
The Met Police and other organisations have an important role to play in tackling hate crime, extremism and terrorism in a city as large, diverse and connected as London.
Hate crime are crimes targeted at people because of their race/ethnicity, disability, religion, sexual orientation or identity.
The challenges of terror and extremism require a sophisticated approach to policing. This can often involve police officers carrying firearms in London, but also working with communities to stand against extremism.
Do you think London is a place where people from different backgrounds get on well together? How well do you think the Met Police deals with hate crime? What more could the police and/or Mayor do to improve how safe you feel from the threat of a terrorist attack?
The discussion ran from 25 October 2016 - 25 January 2017
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Log into your accountChandra72
Community Member 8 years agoPlease can you properly police West Ham home games? It is not enough to protect property at the Westfield and immediately around the station. The thugs who attend the game engage in racist harassment, intimidation, etc on public transport...
Show full commentPlease can you properly police West Ham home games? It is not enough to protect property at the Westfield and immediately around the station. The thugs who attend the game engage in racist harassment, intimidation, etc on public transport from Stratford Station, as well as smashing bottles and engaging in violence on the high street.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoEric G, do you think the intention is to make any criticism of Islam a hate crime ? Islamophobia doesn't exist as it is sensible to fear Islam.
Show full commentEric G, do you think the intention is to make any criticism of Islam a hate crime ? Islamophobia doesn't exist as it is sensible to fear Islam.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoHi Maud,
This mayor was put in place largely by the central, immigrant rich Boroughs. He is very likely keen to represent the views of those who supported him. I guess this applies to most politicians, but this one's different to any that...
Show full commentHi Maud,
This mayor was put in place largely by the central, immigrant rich Boroughs. He is very likely keen to represent the views of those who supported him. I guess this applies to most politicians, but this one's different to any that have gone before.
I think he's got a hidden agenda and always has had. His recent article on 'bringing all Londoners together' and the threats, implicit and explicit it contains, suggest to me that he sees 'social engineering' as legitimate to force groups of Londoners together for his own purposes, even when they have no desire to do so. Given all of the circumstances, any mayor that can conjure up that as a mandate from what he said before the election, may very well be able to give exceptional protection to a minority group. For example treating favoured sub groups as being beyond criticism.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoThanks Eric G - I find all your comments very refreshing and clear. Thanks
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoTalk London
Whilst your Mayor seems to be obsessed with 'hate' crime, the vast majority of which is treated by the courts as trivial, the ONS has published new information which confirms what Londoners know from experience, and...
Show full commentTalk London
Whilst your Mayor seems to be obsessed with 'hate' crime, the vast majority of which is treated by the courts as trivial, the ONS has published new information which confirms what Londoners know from experience, and incidentally, is what MPS statistics seem to indicate.
A new method of ranking offences by severity shows that there has been little increase in incidence, but a large increase in the severity of violent and sexual crime, (amongst other serious crime). Severity is based on seriousness and the public harm caused. A rise in severity of crime of 17% has been identified since 2011.
'Hate' crime doesn't appear to be mentioned, whilst violent, sexual, burglary, drugs, firearms, etc crimes are.
Even Mr Farron, the leader of a national political party, has noticed this phenomena and said "We are finally seeing the hidden crime wave affecting Britain.......".
Has your mayor seen this information from the ONS? Will this affect his obsession with largely trivial 'hate' crimes?
There seems to be a danger that an ethnic minority group mayor may be influenced disproportionately by crimes affecting largely minority groups. (For example, appearing to equate 'hate' crime with terrorism). It also seems to me odd, and unacceptable, that largely trivial 'hate' crimes are given parity with serious violent and sexual crimes. Given the influence your mayor enjoys over the MPS, how can Londoners be sure that the authorities will view the crime affecting all sections of London's population in an equal manner?
Show less of commenthugh hunter
Community Member 8 years agoThis has been a place for people to "have a go" but we should not lose sight of the fact that they did give us a place to make our views known and that deserves credit to the Mayor and his Team. We are now reading about yet more 'fantasy...
Show full commentThis has been a place for people to "have a go" but we should not lose sight of the fact that they did give us a place to make our views known and that deserves credit to the Mayor and his Team. We are now reading about yet more 'fantasy politics' from the meddlers who think they have a bright new idea that may please some and earn a few votes. Appointing an outsider as the Police Chief! Do we also, by the same thinking, want an outsider ( like Mr Trump ) to be our new Mayor or even Prime Minister? Like some times in life when we can see the problem, we just get bit 'astrologist' in solving them. We tried Mr Watson ( ex BR or something) for his 'insight' and he is failing the Police and more important, the public. We are see the mess our Prisons are in after outside "guidance' Let us just stick to what we now is good most of the time. Get someone who we know has success in the DNA of British Policing. This is not a sparkling graduate with a hands clean 25 years inside an office but a hands on veteran who is in contact with the street. It is on the street that we are failing. We do not want another Political 'brown nose' who is swayed by topical interest like historic sex crime' or some new invented crime like 'Wolf whistling'. Courageous independence, Experience in real policing and a focus on that job only.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoI don't think 'the mayor' deserves any credit for Talk London. I believe it's window dressing and is regulated by the mayor's censors to stifle any serious criticism of their policies. I think that 'the mayor' has an agenda for London which...
Show full commentI don't think 'the mayor' deserves any credit for Talk London. I believe it's window dressing and is regulated by the mayor's censors to stifle any serious criticism of their policies. I think that 'the mayor' has an agenda for London which was determined, but unrevealed prior to his election, and which will be slipped in, largely by stealth. I don't think he's interested in policing, he never seems to mention it.
In spite of his pre election rhetoric, mandate, numerous press appearances, launching a wonderful new consultation about London's future, (segmented quite carefully around mundane issues, culture, tower block, etc), in the Evening Standard on 16 November, and with oblique references on Sunday BBC TV programs, 'the mayor' pulls out of hat the new "hands on approach to integration". Where's that come from?
Seems the mayor's just realised London's ghettoised, its got to change, and he's the man to do it. "It's something we can't ignore any longer". "It's no good sticking our heads in the sand or acting as if this issue will simply sort itself out". "We need to make promoting social integration a constant thread that runs through everything we do, whether it's education, planning the voluntary sector or organising cultural activities". What do you think all this double speak means? Wonder what social engineering's on the way. It seems the chaos on the roads caused by the cycling nuts, the disgrace of the lack of school places, the failing public transport, the chaos in the Police Service, etc, etc, can wait, Integration seems to be the new priority. (The curious thing is that white flight seems to have left little for them to integrate, perhaps he's talking about integrating the wonderful diversity!!!!)
I raised an issue on IAGs on this board, (the MPS taking secret advice from extremists which was raised by the BBC). The censors, helpfully, sidestepped my query and gave me an internet link to the MPS. After ping ponging around the MPS with them all denying it was their responsibility, it's been shunted into an unacknowledged Freedom of Information request. Still waiting for a response. No I don't think they have any intention of taking the views of the public seriously.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoThanks for this Eric. I think the integration project will be a way of getting more Muslims in post. Even though I love London and was born here, a true cockney, many years ago, I now feel I have had enough of diversity and I want to live...
Show full commentThanks for this Eric. I think the integration project will be a way of getting more Muslims in post. Even though I love London and was born here, a true cockney, many years ago, I now feel I have had enough of diversity and I want to live with mainly English people -while there is still time.
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 8 years agoThanks all for your views posted above. These will all be analysed along with all responses to our policing and crime survey, which closed yesterday. We’ll leave this thread open for further discussion, however. We’ve added a new post to our blog with a thank you message from the Deputy Mayor for Policing and Crime. This also sets out what happens next in creation of the Mayor’s Police and Crime Plan.Thanks again!Talk London Team
pukpuk
Community Member 8 years agoThank you for removing so many posts of everyone who doesn't agree with Major's policy.
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoI agree, they've clearly got a policy of deleting anything remotely critical of khan.
crushed white …
Community Member 8 years agoThe victim, who is white, is repeatedly punched and kicked by a pair of black men as he lies cowering on the floor
Show full commentThe victim, who is white, is repeatedly punched and kicked by a pair of black men as he lies cowering on the floor
Show less of commentcrushed white …
Community Member 8 years agoHERE is the reality of racist behavior ,
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2156907/us-riot-teenagers-beat-donald-tru…
Kronen
Community Member 8 years agoOnce again the mayor is trying to target resources at 'minority' groups. I think if you asked the people of London would they rather resources were used to prevent hate crimes or say burglary (an offence which is rarely investigated by the...
Show full commentOnce again the mayor is trying to target resources at 'minority' groups. I think if you asked the people of London would they rather resources were used to prevent hate crimes or say burglary (an offence which is rarely investigated by the police but can cause immense trauma to it's victims) I think hate crimes would be fairly low on the list.
Show less of commentAn even better idea would be a poll on here where people could actually specify which crimes they feel need increased police attention rather than asking us to select from a list of crimes which have headline appeal for minority groups.
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoHate and Extremism -seems thats only directed at the English/British White/Christian population.
Show full commentSick and tired of having to defend my views that I want England to be England again. The Liberal/Lefties - please look at Brexit, Trump in the...
Hate and Extremism -seems thats only directed at the English/British White/Christian population.
Show less of commentSick and tired of having to defend my views that I want England to be England again. The Liberal/Lefties - please look at Brexit, Trump in the USA, France will be next to leave the EU and then Holland -you have had your time and ruined our countries with being pro everyone else and anti th English/Scottish/Welsh.
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoThere are some interesting posts here on the two issues of hate crime and diversity.
Show full commentOn hate crime:
I instincitively feel that crimes motivated by hate for someone's characteristics are worse than crimes committed absent of prejudice, but...
There are some interesting posts here on the two issues of hate crime and diversity.
On hate crime:
I instincitively feel that crimes motivated by hate for someone's characteristics are worse than crimes committed absent of prejudice, but it's only from reading these comments I have thought about why. It's partly experience (e.g. a random person shouting 'P*ki' across the street for no reason at all). But it's also somthing more logical than that. Motivation is a key part of the crime, not just the harm suffered by the victim. Eric G in particular, you make some thougth provoking points, thanks. However I disagree. Everyone has the right to feel safe, or at least equally safe. If someone punches me in the face, it was either:
a) because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and anyone in that place would have been punched;
b) in reaction to something I have said/done;
or c) because the offender des not like some people with some characteristics and I share some of those characteristics.
Because 'a' is very rare, and I try to avoid doing things that might want to make someone punch me in the face, I should feel pretty safe, but as long as hate crime exists, the 'c' category might make me feel less safe, and in fact might put me or others at higher risk of crime. This is unfair and because of this I think hate crime should be dealth with more severely due to motivation in order to reduce the type of crime.
For this reason I think it is right that the men who murdered Lee Rigby had their motiavtion taken into account at sentencing. I expect most people agree.
On diveristy:
Show less of commentI personally support a genuinely diverse London because I enjoy meeting and learning from people who are different to me. However based on the comments here maybe I am a minority in this respect!
If you are one of the people who have said diversity is not a good thing, I'd like to ask two questions: How similar does someone have to be before you see them as similar to you? and would you like to live somewhere where only these people live?
Personaly I find the similarities between individuals far more interesting than the differences between groups.
tanyad
Community Member 8 years agoInteresting. So you think a lesbian woman who experiences "corrective" rape and a woman who is raped just because she happens to be in the wrong place should be treated differently??? Rape is rape and its no less traumatic for the victim...
Show full commentInteresting. So you think a lesbian woman who experiences "corrective" rape and a woman who is raped just because she happens to be in the wrong place should be treated differently??? Rape is rape and its no less traumatic for the victim. Crime is crime and the motivating factors might be different but the victims should not be made to feel that their pain is any less than the next person's
Show less of commenttanyad
Community Member 8 years agoAlso, women experience misogyny all the time so I don't think its fair to say that we have no frame of reference for being picked on because someone doesn't like some characteristic about you. Or are we now saying that hate directed at...
Show full commentAlso, women experience misogyny all the time so I don't think its fair to say that we have no frame of reference for being picked on because someone doesn't like some characteristic about you. Or are we now saying that hate directed at someone because of their colour is more important than if its because of their gender?
Show less of commentB49J
Community Member 8 years agoIt is the Government agreeing with Brexit that has increased the racism of some white people. The Government needs to make the British National Party and other things the same illegal. The BNP and people the same as them are violent and...
Show full commentIt is the Government agreeing with Brexit that has increased the racism of some white people. The Government needs to make the British National Party and other things the same illegal. The BNP and people the same as them are violent and some of the racist peole killed Stephen Lawrence.
Show less of commentpukpuk
Community Member 8 years agoMaybe first make Islam illegal?
Show full commentMaybe first make Islam illegal?
Show less of commenthugh hunter
Community Member 8 years agoHate crime is from poor education and from ignorant people. Educate them about the great benefit's we get in this country from the import of brain power into our high achiever ranks. We have a fantastic lift to our welfare from the medics...
Show full commentHate crime is from poor education and from ignorant people. Educate them about the great benefit's we get in this country from the import of brain power into our high achiever ranks. We have a fantastic lift to our welfare from the medics we have around us. The top of the IQ table in this country is populated by immigrants. The Arts have some world class achievers who are from the 'different' and unfortunately who feel isolated. We are all different by some degree. Just get on with your own life and let others get on with their own. They don't need your interference.
Show less of commenthugh hunter
Community Member 8 years agoThe Police should keep away from pressure groups, political, religious or the like, or any influence groups and:- Keep Them Out Of Policing :- Anything that is simply an issue of law 'Enforcement' is their duty. Keep focus on the task of...
Show full commentThe Police should keep away from pressure groups, political, religious or the like, or any influence groups and:- Keep Them Out Of Policing :- Anything that is simply an issue of law 'Enforcement' is their duty. Keep focus on the task of safe guarding life and property, just as set out at beginning of Policing. If you concentrate on a single issue you will neglect the others. We have had too many academics from the 'no experience or background - just clever' (but not wise) watching from the fringe setting the objectives. Now we have a police force that is lost, with senior officers running from critics or other fault finders. Strong! Independent! and without fear or favour to Anyone! is the great principle for all police officers and imperative in the leadership.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoBulls eye comment.
pukpuk
Community Member 8 years agoYes. We must tackle hate crime. But first lets decide who is the hater and who is the victim actually.
Maria11
Community Member 8 years agoI have experience hate crime and harrasment from men Black and Asian especially in London in the streets i think because of my race,religion ,sexual orientation,and my identity as woman and human.I dont think at London is safe for different...
Show full commentI have experience hate crime and harrasment from men Black and Asian especially in London in the streets i think because of my race,religion ,sexual orientation,and my identity as woman and human.I dont think at London is safe for different backrounds of people to get well together.I dont have very good experience with Metropolitan police how they deal with Hate crime .They dont willig help.I think that police and Mayor should tackle threath and terrorist attacks to train speciall officers in cities ,airports,or public places to handle all caint of situations.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoMaria, 'hate' crime from BMEs, that's not on the mayor's radar, this is meant to be a one way street. Nobody at the Mayor's office, including the Mayor, seem concerned about crime against women, (or many other crimes), as you're not one of...
Show full commentMaria, 'hate' crime from BMEs, that's not on the mayor's radar, this is meant to be a one way street. Nobody at the Mayor's office, including the Mayor, seem concerned about crime against women, (or many other crimes), as you're not one of the 'special' groups.
If you become a 'hate' preacher, join an extremist group, shout anti British religious slogans etc, you may be able to join one of the Mets Independent Advisor Groups, (IAG). It's an invitation only organisation of course, they wouldn't want the wrong sort in, but then they'll listen to anything you say, even change their tactics if you say the clique won't like what the police intend to do. Funny old policing world eh?
Can anyone explain to me, how in a western democracy, the police can set up a normally secret panel of minorities, including know extremists, to advise them on special policing arrangements for ethnic/religious groups? (My Borough Commander once told me it's so that the police don't bring dogs in on a bust of minorities who think they're 'unclean' animals).
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 8 years agoHi Eric,Any and all forms of hate crime are a priority area. And as we’ve said above, crime against women and girls is in fact another priority area, as is the case in the current Police and Crime Plan.The Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime have given us a little more information on Independent Advisry Groups; Independent Advisory Groups are not secret organisations. Information about them is available on the Met Police website, and any member of the public can approach the MPS about joining. As you will see on the website, there are a mixture of strategic and borough based IAGs made up of representatives from different communities. As the title suggests, their role is advisory and they have no power to change police operational tactics.Hope this is helpful,Talk London Team
Maria11
Community Member 8 years agoI have experience hate crime and harrasment from men Black and Asian especially in London in the streets i think because of my race,religion ,sexual orientation,and my identity as woman and human.I dont think at London is safe for different...
Show full commentI have experience hate crime and harrasment from men Black and Asian especially in London in the streets i think because of my race,religion ,sexual orientation,and my identity as woman and human.I dont think at London is safe for different backrounds of people to get well together.I dont have very good experience with Metropolitan police how they deal with Hate crime .They dont willig help.I think that police and Mayor should tackle threath and terrorist attacks to train speciall officers in cities ,airports,or public places to handle all caint of situations.
Show less of commentLewisham Polic…
Community Member 8 years agoBegg v BBC Judgement - will the Mayor intervene regarding the Metropolitan Police Service continuing to work with and be advised by someone a High Court Judge has found to be an extremist and hate preacher?
Show full commenthttps://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp...
Begg v BBC Judgement - will the Mayor intervene regarding the Metropolitan Police Service continuing to work with and be advised by someone a High Court Judge has found to be an extremist and hate preacher?
Show less of commenthttps://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/shakeel-begg-v-…
Lewisham Polic…
Community Member 8 years agoUser name is actually Lewisham Police Watch, not all showing on comment, cannot see how to amend user name
Talk London
Official Representative 8 years agoHi Lewisham Police Watch,
We can amend your username for you if you drop us a line at [email protected] and let us know what you'd like it changed to.
In terms of your question above, any questions directly for the Mayor can be sent to the City Hall Public Liaison team at [email protected]
Hope that's helpful,
Talk London Team
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoThis was a heavily loaded 'survey' - most people will not wish to answer questions unless they are able to remain anonymous so they will be deemed to be happy with the way things are, the fact is that most people want a good police force...
Show full commentThis was a heavily loaded 'survey' - most people will not wish to answer questions unless they are able to remain anonymous so they will be deemed to be happy with the way things are, the fact is that most people want a good police force who arrest criminals and a good justice system that convicts criminals and a fair system to bring those to account when either or both of these things do not happen - simples - forget trying to divide us all the time with what sex, religeon, colour or foorball team we support, londoners are londoners
Show less of commenttanyad
Community Member 8 years agoSpot on! The favouritism expressed to any group is just going to be divisive
julesMB
Community Member 8 years agothe main faith involved in terror needs to preach peace and compliance at all times. It is up to them to stop their ignorant youth from feeling it is ever right to take up arms
philjer
Community Member 8 years agoAll hate crimes, whether racist/faith based/sexual preference based should be dealt with severely.
Show full commentBut also more needs to be done for those who claim hate crimes to stifle legitimate criticism or legitimate boycotts against foreign groups...
All hate crimes, whether racist/faith based/sexual preference based should be dealt with severely.
Show less of commentBut also more needs to be done for those who claim hate crimes to stifle legitimate criticism or legitimate boycotts against foreign groups and countries who are committing abuses against others overseas.
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoWhy should all 'hate' crimes be dealt with severely? Sever 'hate' crimes should, but trivial 'hate' crimes shouldn't. Policing and prosecution should, and must, be proportional. This whole disproportionate approach to 'hate' crime...
Show full commentWhy should all 'hate' crimes be dealt with severely? Sever 'hate' crimes should, but trivial 'hate' crimes shouldn't. Policing and prosecution should, and must, be proportional. This whole disproportionate approach to 'hate' crime prosecution will inevitably create a backlash against the very people it is professed to be protecting as people start to see it as a biased pogrom against the non protected group/s.
It's particularly dangerous that what was once a minority, has in many areas of London, become the majority, but 'victim' perceptions don't seem to reflect this, particularly those of the Mayor.
This Mayor needs to explain why, of all the crimes committed in London, only 'hate' crimes should be disproportionately singled out for special treatment.
Show less of commentjulesMB
Community Member 8 years agoagree 100%