Policing hate, extremism and terror
The Met Police and other organisations have an important role to play in tackling hate crime, extremism and terrorism in a city as large, diverse and connected as London.
Hate crime are crimes targeted at people because of their race/ethnicity, disability, religion, sexual orientation or identity.
The challenges of terror and extremism require a sophisticated approach to policing. This can often involve police officers carrying firearms in London, but also working with communities to stand against extremism.
Do you think London is a place where people from different backgrounds get on well together? How well do you think the Met Police deals with hate crime? What more could the police and/or Mayor do to improve how safe you feel from the threat of a terrorist attack?
The discussion ran from 25 October 2016 - 25 January 2017
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Community Member 8 years agoOf course engaging with the community is key to tackling crime. However, highlighting schemes like this are divisive and contrary to the aim. Why can't police, as a matter of course, engage with religious community leaders in the same way...
Show full commentOf course engaging with the community is key to tackling crime. However, highlighting schemes like this are divisive and contrary to the aim. Why can't police, as a matter of course, engage with religious community leaders in the same way that they do with shopowners and local residents? The more we highlight and shout about these things, the more they become apparent and obvious. Are we different? Yes, we are. Can we live together peacefully? Yes, we can. I am white, middle aged and British born and bred. But I am a Londoner and my demographic only makes up a small part of where I live. However, I am spoiled by the richness and diversity that people of different ethnic backgrounds have brought to our communities. The government and media in recent times has caused so much fear and tension between us and its taking us down an irreversible path. We are all people and we all have similar concerns. On the whole people just want to live peacefully and go about their business, schemes like this need to be rethought.
Show less of commentCharlesIC
Community Member 8 years agoHear hear! Agree 100%
tanyad
Community Member 8 years agoThat was exactly my point, its OTHER organisations like MI5 intelligence and the Police anti-terrorism unit that focus on extremist and terrorist cells so this just shows the Mayor up as not having a clue as to how this is already been...
Show full commentThat was exactly my point, its OTHER organisations like MI5 intelligence and the Police anti-terrorism unit that focus on extremist and terrorist cells so this just shows the Mayor up as not having a clue as to how this is already been managed.
Hate crime is bad but I can honestly say its not something I or anyone else I know has ever experienced and yet the crimes that I do know many people to have experienced are being ignored! If you solely focus on a small group, I think it also builds resentment across the rest of the population because I feel like "Hang on, Mr Mayor, why do you care more about a small minority rather than all of us? Are you expressing bias towards people you identify with? Are you more interested in scoring political points by choosing something trendy to care about?" If your average person feels that their concerns are being ignored in favour of another group, that to my mind just gives them more reasons to direct their hate at that group. Sorry, but his focus should be on crimes that affect that majority, not the minority. I think when it comes to minority crime, I would like to think that Londoners as a progressive group would not allow that to happen. I have witnessed a few occasions where I or others have stepped in to defend someone being aggravated due to their colour or sexual orientation.
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 8 years agoThank you for your comments so far. A couple of you have mentioned the particular nature of hate crime and how this is different to extremism or terror. It is important that all sections of London’s population feel safe from crimes motivated by prejudice against a person’s race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or identity, or disability.
What role do you think the police should play in tackling hate crime? Are there things that officers can do to prevent hate crime occurring, or should their role focus on when it has already occurred? Do you think London celebrates diversity in a way that lessens the risk of hate crime, or not?
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoThe police should be treating this crime in exactly the same way that they treat other crime. As I have mentioned in an earlier post, most hate crime is presumably regarded as low level by the government & the judiciary, as custodial...
Show full commentThe police should be treating this crime in exactly the same way that they treat other crime. As I have mentioned in an earlier post, most hate crime is presumably regarded as low level by the government & the judiciary, as custodial sentences are rare and average sentences are small. Yet a CPS agent was devolved to each Borough especially to deal with these cases. I find it astonishing, looking at the incidence of 'hate' crime relative to other crimes, that this should be so.
Giving special interest groups special police favour, denied to others, is divisive and damages confidence in the police. It is also not clear how the police decide where to acquire the information they need to give special protection to privileged groups. The Sunday Politics TV show identified that one Borough used a known extremist on their IAG! Come to that, why do the police need specially appointed, not elected, minority group members in IAGs at all?
The police must be, and be seen to be, treating all ethnic, religious, deviant etc groups equally and openly with no special arrangements for anyone or any subset of the population. If this is deemed to give insufficient protection to any subset, the laws of the land need to changed to offer those groups special protection. This is the only way to afford favours in a democracy and would give an open process for special treatment and a chance for others to scrutinise and monitor the process.
Show less of commenttanyad
Community Member 8 years agoThat was exactly my point, its OTHER organisations like MI5 intelligence and the Police anti-terrorism unit that focus on extremist and terrorist cells so this just shows the Mayor up as not having a clue as to how this is already been...
Show full commentThat was exactly my point, its OTHER organisations like MI5 intelligence and the Police anti-terrorism unit that focus on extremist and terrorist cells so this just shows the Mayor up as not having a clue as to how this is already been managed.
Hate crime is bad but I can honestly say its not something I or anyone else I know has ever experienced and yet the crimes that I do know many people to have experienced are being ignored! If you solely focus on a small group, I think it also builds resentment across the rest of the population because I feel like "Hang on, Mr Mayor, why do you care more about a small minority rather than all of us? Are you expressing bias towards people you identify with? Are you more interested in scoring political points by choosing something trendy to care about?" If your average person feels that their concerns are being ignored in favour of another group, that to my mind just gives them more reasons to direct their hate at that group. Sorry, but his focus should be on crimes that affect that majority, not the minority. I think when it comes to minority crime, I would like to think that Londoners as a progressive group would not allow that to happen. I have witnessed a few occasions where I or others have stepped in to defend someone being aggravated due to their colour or sexual preference
Show less of commentkscterry
Community Member 8 years agoI would like to see the mayor do more about the HUGE spike that has taken place over the last few months in moped gangs riding up on the pavement and grabbing phones straight out of people's hands. Public awareness just isn't there about...
Show full commentI would like to see the mayor do more about the HUGE spike that has taken place over the last few months in moped gangs riding up on the pavement and grabbing phones straight out of people's hands. Public awareness just isn't there about this.
Show less of commentI first learned about this in June after walking out of Angel Tube Station on my phone and being approached by a police officer informing me that there was a large amount of these offences going on and to be wary of the wider issue.
After reading in to it I realised this is a huge problem across London
Public awareness is weak on this. Why?
tanyad
Community Member 8 years agoSince terrorism and extremism are already well managed by intelligence services, this is the Mayor posturing about things above his station. Hate crimes are bad but again, name calling is being treated more seriously than people being...
Show full commentSince terrorism and extremism are already well managed by intelligence services, this is the Mayor posturing about things above his station. Hate crimes are bad but again, name calling is being treated more seriously than people being hijacked in broad daylight. There are now several incidents such as this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXFvlsdu1yU&feature=youtu.be and when it happened to someone I know, he called the police angry and furious and used a derogatory term for his attackers and while his attack was not pursued due to lack of evidence, they then turned around and threatened him with prosecution for his name calling under the banner of it being a hate crime! The Mayor is picking a topic that affects one small group rather than focussing on crimes that affect us all...its the flavour of the day to make headlines rather than something that would be beneficial to all.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoWhen a political campaign was run using racism (to the level that many associated the campaign with similar propaganda used in Nazi Germany during WWII, even a Tory MP resigned compairing it to this). Why hasn't the politicians who headed...
Show full commentWhen a political campaign was run using racism (to the level that many associated the campaign with similar propaganda used in Nazi Germany during WWII, even a Tory MP resigned compairing it to this). Why hasn't the politicians who headed this hateful campaign been investigated and now face charges for incitement of racial hatred? since the Reforendum countless minorities have been the victim to violence and in some cases murder. Aren't these politicians responsible? I thought under the Blair government new laws were brought in making this type of racial hatred an illegal offence here in the UK.In recent months the racists are openly subjecting their poisonous views to the rest of us - look at the shameful things said on that radio station and worse the views in the comments below. England is now being seen as a racist country and that will take genertions to correct.
Show less of commenttanyad
Community Member 8 years agoDo you think its better anywhere else??? Get real! Look at the US, look at France, look at Germany, look at Hungary, look at Australia....the list goes on. People will always look to protect their domain when they feel their way of life is...
Show full commentDo you think its better anywhere else??? Get real! Look at the US, look at France, look at Germany, look at Hungary, look at Australia....the list goes on. People will always look to protect their domain when they feel their way of life is being threatened; whether that threat is real or not; perception is reality for most people.
Show less of commentkscterry
Community Member 8 years agoIt's impossible to protect the general public from terrorism without the freedom to stop and search any individual deemed to be suspicious. I have no objection to being stopped and searched as and when the police feel I may be a threat to...
Show full commentIt's impossible to protect the general public from terrorism without the freedom to stop and search any individual deemed to be suspicious. I have no objection to being stopped and searched as and when the police feel I may be a threat to others. I have nothing to hide - a stop and search will find nothing on me. Politicians have got their noses stuck in and are defending a small minority of individuals who object because they are up to something. Can we please protect ordinary Londoners once and for all? We are at the moment basically asking the police to go and do their jobs in handcuffs!
Show less of commentClintonj
Community Member 8 years agoRight on
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoWhy are 'extremism' and 'terror' crimes being lumped together with 'hate' crimes? Terror crimes are by their very nature extreme violence and life threatening. A single terrorist crime, such as the tube bombings, can kill dozens or even...
Show full commentWhy are 'extremism' and 'terror' crimes being lumped together with 'hate' crimes? Terror crimes are by their very nature extreme violence and life threatening. A single terrorist crime, such as the tube bombings, can kill dozens or even hundreds of people and leave many mutilated. These crimes, and the extremism that leads to them, should be afforded a unique and top priority by the police.
As 'hate' crimes are clearly generally much lower level offences, they should be considered separately and dealt with appropriately, ie with reduced priority and resources. Name calling, annoying as it is, isn't in the same league as terrorism.
Clearly there's a need for an enhanced firearm capability within the Met. I am however concerned with the concept of "working with communities" as this blatantly means only working with BME and deviant communities. Why doesn't the Met have a policy which includes working with the white Christian community?
London clearly isn't a place where people of different backgrounds get on well together. Where would 'white flight' fit into this false picture? The concentration of different ethnic/religious groups into various ghettos further supports this. Much of the violent street crime arises from the divisiveness of wonderful diversity and there's clearly a need for the Met to either police in a genuinely universal manner, or tailor policing to the crime profiles of the different ethnic/religious groups. The former would clearly be preferable.
I'm concerned that a muslim Asian Mayor will skew policing in favour of this ethnic group, and the conflation of 'terror' and 'hate' crimes into a single strand will lead to disproportionate deployment of police resources.
Show less of commentmichaelgcook
Community Member 8 years agoLittle can be as frightening as terrorism, but I assume you have never been the victim of a hate crime as you regard it as 'annoying' rather than a genuine threat. But how can you be sure? And your comments about the ethnicity of the mayor...
Show full commentLittle can be as frightening as terrorism, but I assume you have never been the victim of a hate crime as you regard it as 'annoying' rather than a genuine threat. But how can you be sure? And your comments about the ethnicity of the mayor suggest you hold your own prejudices. I am white and British and I count people from a number of different races and religions among my friends. I don't feel threatened by differences.
Rather, I feel more frightened of people who hold views such as yours. Violent street crime is linked to poverty. Poverty is often the result of people not getting a chance in life and this can be because of the prejudice of others. So open your mind and meet people from different cultures. Then put yourself in their shoes, read your post again and see how you feel.
Show less of commenthugh hunter
Community Member 8 years agoYou have a view educated by your experience, and profess a tolerant and generous attitude to criminal activity, as if some groups are not different in their experience, and so are just like you. The evidence that some cultures are more...
Show full commentYou have a view educated by your experience, and profess a tolerant and generous attitude to criminal activity, as if some groups are not different in their experience, and so are just like you. The evidence that some cultures are more likely the victims, as well as the perpetrators of say- knife crime, speaks for loud and clear, but the Police are under Political pressure to change perceptions and so they are not taking appropriate action. You, amongst your reasonable friends are not facing the dangers and you simply dont understand them
Show less of commentsbiplu
Community Member 8 years agoSuch schemes as prevent and the strategies involved or used only divide communities, building tension and hate; as the programmes are targeting faith. Engaging heads of places of worship along with the diverse force of ethnic officers in...
Show full commentSuch schemes as prevent and the strategies involved or used only divide communities, building tension and hate; as the programmes are targeting faith. Engaging heads of places of worship along with the diverse force of ethnic officers in the planning of a directive programme with engagement of local schools, faith groups and the local authority and approach can prevent causes of extremism. First stop would be engaging with the media to select headlines and titles that does not class all of a faith as terrorist!
London is nothing without its diverse background of its population and their languages, the business that contribute towards London success attract and employ these vibrant people and as such those who prevent or seek to prevent people from different backgrounds; sex, race or faith should be banned from London, also banned from airing their views on social media platforms as a whole and engagement of hate groups should be banned in all forms.
Show less of commentgreybeard
Community Member 8 years agosome good suggestions, but a few questionable ones...
Show full commentone of the great strengths of UK society is tolerance, even of those with views we find objectionable. Censorship of the press would be a mistake, a free press represents a wide range of...
some good suggestions, but a few questionable ones...
one of the great strengths of UK society is tolerance, even of those with views we find objectionable. Censorship of the press would be a mistake, a free press represents a wide range of views in society and is a useful barometer telling you what a proportion of the society thinks. Even if you don't like those thoughts it is better to know and then engage to try and change misguided perceptions and reduce ignorance.
Similarly banning people from London (not really possible) just because you disagree with their views does not seem sensible.
Targetting faith? This does not seem likely. The dictionary definition of faith is
"strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof."
Various forms of faith have always been part of human society and while logic and reason seem a preferable basis for belief I don't see any concerted attempt to eliminate faith.
What has to be addressed is behaviour that causes harm to others; the causes of such behaviour are varied but religious dogma has often been one such factor.
Show less of commentSo yes, "leaders" of faith groups do have a great responsibility to ensure hate and intolerance are not part of their "teaching" and to publicly denounce it at every opportunity.