Direct vision for lorries

Direct Vision Cabs can't come in quick enough.

They are clearly an improvement over high set Cabs, but despite best design practice, they may still have significant blind spots, as many large vans and cars do, often ironically made worse by large mirrors, so they will not be a perfect solution, just an improvement.

And the drivers will still only be able to check in one mirror (or look ahead) at a time.

The total transition will take time to achieve.

Cyclists will continue to have a role to play in keeping themselves safe and away from dangerous bus and truck drivers wherever possible.

https://www.facebook.com/CycleSafer/videos/1751119935216133/

I try to base my opinion on facts backed up by referenced sources and logic, whilst calling out what I perceive to be incorrect facts, invalid logic and bluster.

I don't believe I am posting negatively, instead I am trying to advance understanding of the complex issues involved. If anyone posts something making false or unsubstantiated claims, then someone has to call that out lest the followers of the discussion are led to believe something which is wrong.

Ref my 'stalking', it appears you followed me onto this thread.

Kcsterry, without any evidence you see fit to blame the victims. I find your comment offensive. If you took the trouble to look at the results of collision investigations, you would know that it is commonplace for drivers to overtake bikes then turn across them. You lost any remaining credibility when you described an initiative to improve visibility for drivers as declaring war on haulage firms. You are happy for lorries to have blind spots, but I'd like to see something done about it.

Who do you blame for the pedestrian deaths?

Hang on. Which is it ? If a cyclist 'sits in the blind spot', how can they be 'jumping a red light' as well ?

I'm guessing that the number of red light jumping cyclists killed or seriously injured in London by HGVs is most likely to be zero.

A cyclist 'sitting' in a blind spot towards the rear of the vehicle shouldn't be in any danger either, unless the truck can move sideways.

For the ridiculous 'immediately in front of the cab' and 'alongside the front nearside wheel' blind spots, 'direct vision' cabs are the obvious answer.

"World War 3" ? Get a grip. That's hardly appropriate language when vulnerable road users are being killed on a regular basis on London's roads. If small haulage companies' costs rise then they pass the cost on to their customers. As the rules will apply to all, all their competitors will be faced with the same costs.

"Ridiculous expectations"? What's so ridiculous about expecting that a vehicle should be able to be operated in a manner which means it can perform its function without its driver maiming or killing a vulnerable road user ? That strikes me as pretty civilised.

biffthebass, whether people are killed by driver error or because of their own mistakes, don't you think it would be a good idea if drivers had better visibility? That seems sensible to me. Or do you think it's OK for HGVs to have blind spots?

Unfortunately Mr Vaughan, you can never eliminate every blind spot all of the time, that is a fact of life. Most lorries have five mirrors, one flat & one convex each side looking towards the rear, plus what is known as an idiot mirror over the nearside door to see what's alongside the cab. It's called an idiot mirror for a very good reason. If you start putting more mirrors & TV cameras to try to show every part of the vehicle at all times, the driver will be distracted from looking where he's supposed to be going & then get blamed for running into someone who'd stopped suddenly in front of him. You have to rely up to a point on other people being sensible when driving any vehicle let alone a 60ft long artic in heavy traffic, they need a lot of space & they don't stop as quickly as a car. If a car hits a cyclist or a pedestrian, these people have a reasonable chance of surviving, but when they get hit by a 44 ton lorry there's only going to be one winner. Having more mirrors & cameras will only make the situation worse. Before making glib suggestions, people should take & pass an HGV1 course & then see for themselves what drivers have to face in heavy traffic. It's shall we say a whole different ball game than driving a Mini. If people don't want to get killed or injured, there's a very simple solution, they should keep well away from lorries, especially a road junctions. Cyclists & drivers of all vehicles should try to give each other a wide berth. Cyclists sould also use cycle paths where they're provided. The number of times I've seen them using the road right next to a cycle path & then shout at car drivers when they pass them too closely, those sort of people are just brainless idiots.

jsmg, you cycle to work most days? Really?

I've never had a problem with lorries either, but they do kill a lot of people so there is a problem. Perhaps it's people getting in their way, or perhaps it's careless, drunk, or distracted drivers, banned drivers, or drivers with poor eyesight or who are on their phones or reading papers and don't check their mirrors who run people down. Or perhaps it's the unsafe design of the lorries. Maybe all of those. But let's just blame the victims and do nothing, that's easier than doing something useful, isn't it?

Personally, I think this plan is long overdue. In the long term though, it's no substitute for proper cycle tracks.