A Green New Deal

Open

683 Londoners have responded

Bus stop with the Clean Air stickers

Discussions

A Green New Deal

User Image for
Added by Talk London

Up vote 0
Care 0

The UK low carbon and environmental goods and services sector (green economy) is worth £40 billion in sales and employs nearly 250,000 people. It is worth more to the London economy than the construction and manufacturing sectors combined. Putting the environment at the centre of London’s recovery offers an opportunity to reverse the looming economic downturn by bringing new investment to London, helping businesses to see long-term growth, and providing decent, skilled, local jobs. Protecting and investing in the environment will also improve the health of all Londoners. Read more about the context for this mission.
 
Mission: “Increase the size of London’s green economy by 2030 to accelerate job creation and to drive a fair and inclusive recovery from COVID-19 that tackles the climate emergency, eradicates air pollution and builds long-term, community-led resilience.”
 
We’ll need to work together so that:

  • Short term - there's a rapid increase in Londoners acquiring the skills needed to access green jobs as well as increase investment in the sector
  • Medium term - making transport, buildings, public realm and lifestyles more environmentally friendly
  • Long term - we become a zero pollution city by 2030 and zero waste city by 2050

 
Areas of focus might include:

  • Scaling up energy and adaptation programmes to retrofit buildings and accelerate community and renewable energy projects
  • Developing safe, connected cycling and walking routes, and support a shift away from cars to public transport
  • Funding communities to increase green spaces and support low carbon and circular economy businesses

 
What do you think of this mission? Is there anything critical to London’s recovery missing from this mission? What does this mean for you personally and your community? What actions or interventions would have the most impact? How will we know that we’ve succeeded?  Who has a role to play to meet this challenge?   

The discussion ran from 07 August 2020 - 01 October 2020

Closed


Want to join our next discussion?

New here? Join Talk London, City Hall's online community where you can have your say on London's biggest issues.

Join Talk London

Already have an account?

Log into your account
Comments (332)

Avatar for - Pangolin
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

This is a beautifully presented proposal.  Who could argue against helping the environment?? But it isn't a particularly balanced view of the situation.  I am currently living through a (multi-million pound) 'trial' of new bike and cycle...

Show full comment

This is a beautifully presented proposal.  Who could argue against helping the environment?? But it isn't a particularly balanced view of the situation.  I am currently living through a (multi-million pound) 'trial' of new bike and cycle routes. The pollution is horrendous and it damages businesses struggling to come back after lockdown.  It seems particularly ill thought through at a time when we are being told not to go on public transport.  Perhaps if you are a single person it is perfectly feasible to walk or cycle everywhere but it isn't realistic with a 2 year old.  I think if you look at Nextdoor you will find there is far more opposition than is evident on this page...

We are better than this.  We should be able to find a way to help the environment without ruining lives and crushing people's businesses. Please think again. 

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Sumatran elephant
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Let people use their own (not hired) electric scooters on the roads/in the cycle/bus lanes.

As Covid-19 makes people's lungs more susceptible, removing cars from the roads and replacing them with e-scooters would greatly reduce the amount...

Show full comment

Let people use their own (not hired) electric scooters on the roads/in the cycle/bus lanes.

As Covid-19 makes people's lungs more susceptible, removing cars from the roads and replacing them with e-scooters would greatly reduce the amount of air pollution and reduce traffic jams on the roads.  It was so lovely and quiet in lockdown and my husband's asthma was so much better without all the pollution.

Cycle lanes need to be completely separated from cars by a physical barrier.  Pinch points that force cyclist into the path of following buses, lorries and cars do nothing to promote cycle safety.  Cyclists shouldn't be forced to use cycle lanes that take them off the main roads, up side roads that are hilly - let the cars use those and the cycles/e-scooters have the flat routes.

What is completely unacceptable is Boris telling everyone to get back in their cars to go to work.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

100% agree, if we want more people on bikes then we need a lot of roads to be redesigned to be bike-first, with car lanes only where it's safe to have them

Show full comment

100% agree, if we want more people on bikes then we need a lot of roads to be redesigned to be bike-first, with car lanes only where it's safe to have them

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Sea turtle
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

This is a really impressive manifesto for a green new deal - the key to success will be to really get London's businesses on board for a sustainable future.

I used to work in theatre and projects that I looked at in terms of sustainability...

Show full comment

This is a really impressive manifesto for a green new deal - the key to success will be to really get London's businesses on board for a sustainable future.

I used to work in theatre and projects that I looked at in terms of sustainability included reducing the carbon footprint with digital ticketing and advertising. Manchester has made a really good start with this.

Whilst coronavirus has been devastating for live entertainment across the board let's not rush back to how it was before - let's take opportunities to reinvent - reducing costs and contact where we can and greening the industry wherever possible.

When theatre comes back let's look at how we can save costs and reduce it's carbon footprint - minimising paper ticketing and advertising, using carbon neutral or carbon free transport solutions for audience transport (eg trains not coaches) and industry transport too...

 

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

I agree with all that there isn't enough said above to outline a clear plan but also think we should be pragmatic and understand it's a summary to encourage discussion. 
 

I believe that individuals are beginning to wake up to the fact a...

Show full comment

I agree with all that there isn't enough said above to outline a clear plan but also think we should be pragmatic and understand it's a summary to encourage discussion. 
 

I believe that individuals are beginning to wake up to the fact a large amount of responsibility lies with us. This alone is a great achievement but the guilt alone doesn't harbour results. The possibility of making a difference is very often taken out of our hands due to the affordability of living a truly sustainable lifestyle. In turn disengagement ensues before the next big event awakens us to its severity. 
 

Green initiatives are fantastic and I'm not for a second condemning a single venture as not being enough but it is calamitous to see the contrast in society between those initiatives and reality. Vast cycle lanes sandwiched in between an 18 wheeler and 99p store which I think is short for 99% plastic. 
 

The back bone of society, in particular large parts of the service industry, are reliant on archaic business models that are extremely harmful for the environment. We as individuals are forced to perpetuate this through our dependence on supporting these businesses.
 

Until the responsibility on the individual to make the choice of supporting an ethical, green and sustainable business is taken away by regulation we will always be pushing water uphill. 

 

I can make this case over several industries within the consumer market and no amount of parks or cycle lanes will change what is truly detrimental to the environment within our communities. 
 

It should be a wake up call to governments and humanity as a whole to realise that if this pandemic was a football match, our planet wouldn't be cheering for the team with opposable thumbs. 

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

I could not agree more with the points you make between the environment and a legacy economy, and how regulation will have to take away people's choice if anything is to happen. Thank you.

Show full comment

I could not agree more with the points you make between the environment and a legacy economy, and how regulation will have to take away people's choice if anything is to happen. Thank you.

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Vaquita
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report
Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Great idea - but need to think carefully about how it is funded and/or have some accountability if it is publicly funded. Throwing large amounts of money at a project with no checks and balances leads to inefficiency which would offset the...

Show full comment

Great idea - but need to think carefully about how it is funded and/or have some accountability if it is publicly funded. Throwing large amounts of money at a project with no checks and balances leads to inefficiency which would offset the initiative's aims. 

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Rhino
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

One simple change that would greatly improve our air would be to ban two-stroke engines. The city has tons of noisy mopeds and motorbikes that contribute a wildly outsized volume of air pollution.

Show full comment

One simple change that would greatly improve our air would be to ban two-stroke engines. The city has tons of noisy mopeds and motorbikes that contribute a wildly outsized volume of air pollution.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Is it the noise or the emissions you are concerned with Derb?

As a motorcyclist myself, I'm with you on the noise issue.  The few glorified lawnmowers and attention-seeking speedfreaks or Harley riders are annoying but not enough to...

Show full comment

Is it the noise or the emissions you are concerned with Derb?

As a motorcyclist myself, I'm with you on the noise issue.  The few glorified lawnmowers and attention-seeking speedfreaks or Harley riders are annoying but not enough to justify outlawing all two-wheelers. It is not legal to drive a vehicle that is not fittted with adequate silencers but the police have too much else to do to target these.

Unlike cars, taxis, vans and lorries, two wheeled vehicles take up little road space, are rarely stationary in traffic and still have to conform to emissions tests. Older and less efficient vehicles are subject to ULEZ so are phasing out gradually. For those who are unable to use public transport and would otherwise use a car, two wheels make more sense. I carry the tools of my trade on my bike whenever possible and I do my best not to annoy anyone...

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

I totally agree. The noise pollution of them alone, let alone the fact that many exceed the speed limits and dip into dedicated cycle lanes, needs to be controlled.

 

Show full comment

I totally agree. The noise pollution of them alone, let alone the fact that many exceed the speed limits and dip into dedicated cycle lanes, needs to be controlled.

 

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Make London village based again-  it was in the past. More walking and hop on and off public transport options-  local initiatives but needs planning. E cycle tracks? Weekly street markets - incentive to shop locally. At present all very...

Show full comment

Make London village based again-  it was in the past. More walking and hop on and off public transport options-  local initiatives but needs planning. E cycle tracks? Weekly street markets - incentive to shop locally. At present all very piecemeal. Give local councils more funding and capacity & they consult more. Greening carbon free  days when no traffic, sell local produce. Mass walking for a school pick up? It will need forceful messaging. No shilly shallying. It's too urgent. 

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Sea turtle
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

I love these initiatives and the climate emergency cannot wait any second longer, the more we wait to take action, the more we increase our risk of dying young. However I feel I've seen such initiatives and promises 5 and 10 years ago as...

Show full comment

I love these initiatives and the climate emergency cannot wait any second longer, the more we wait to take action, the more we increase our risk of dying young. However I feel I've seen such initiatives and promises 5 and 10 years ago as well, with targets for 2020, and now it's 2020 and we haven't discussed whether those targets were met at all. How can we make these targets legally binding and ensure they are followed through carefully, as well as get monthly or semi-anually reports on progress, to make sure we actually do respect them?

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

All these discussions are pointless if it is not acknowledged that cars are the one and only problem and that they have no place in an urban area. Get rid of the cars and the rest will follow. People will reclaim their space and keep it...

Show full comment

All these discussions are pointless if it is not acknowledged that cars are the one and only problem and that they have no place in an urban area. Get rid of the cars and the rest will follow. People will reclaim their space and keep it clean and green.There are many examples of cities who have done just that. Bordeaux, where I am from, a polluted and run down city a few years ago now has a glorious city center now enjoyed by much larger crowds than it used to. This forum is about "not going back to business as usual". If people start to say "yes but..." the battle is lost in advance. Yes, some degree of convenience will be lost for certain things but this will be nothing compared to the benefits.

Flying is a good example. How much energy wasted to argue the point on the 3rd Heathrow runway. All of that to eventually realise that all it takes to halve the number of flights is to use video conferencing. Exactly the same will and certainly has to happen with cars.

As an aside, I appreciate getting rid of cars may not happen overnight. But in the meantime, how can Londoners accept things like the absurdly noisy motorbikes that roams our roads and shatter the peace of our streets and homes. I live In Wandsworth. A borough blessed with many parks. But each one turned into a giant and insanely noisy roundabout. Do we need a COVID crisis to realise that this makes no sense and we need to take action?

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Please refer to my reply to Derb above...

Show full comment

Please refer to my reply to Derb above...

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Rhino
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

With the encouragement of more bikes on the road access to bike safety classes  need to be made available and in some cases become mandatory as the streets are becoming more hazardous.

  

Show full comment

With the encouragement of more bikes on the road access to bike safety classes  need to be made available and in some cases become mandatory as the streets are becoming more hazardous.

  

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Polar bear
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

This should be the absolute top priority during recovery, for the sake of London and the world. London could become a global leader on green recovery.

Show full comment

This should be the absolute top priority during recovery, for the sake of London and the world. London could become a global leader on green recovery.

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Sumatran elephant
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

I support all the measures outlined, but they don't go far enough. London needs to be a carbon-zero city by 2030 at the latest.

Addressing climate change and ecological breakdown is the most important issue of our times. The post-Covid...

Show full comment

I support all the measures outlined, but they don't go far enough. London needs to be a carbon-zero city by 2030 at the latest.

Addressing climate change and ecological breakdown is the most important issue of our times. The post-Covid recovery, with so much of the economy in tatters, presents the best opportunity we will ever have to rebuild in a fairer, greener way. The importance of combining climate and social justice is well illustrated by today's announcement of job losses at British Airways. While it is vital for the survival of our planet that we drastically reduce flying, job losses should be made acceptable by offers of retraining and redeployment in new sectors of the economy such as retrofitting buildings and planting more trees.

Regarding transport, electric cars are for many reasons clearly not the answer - though electric motorbikes should be encouraged. We need people to drive less not drive different cars. Improving public transport (less crowded tube trains, more reliable buses, more bus routes) and better facilities for cycling and walking, alongside increasing ULEZs and low traffic neighbourhood schemes, school streets, etc, should aim to make driving a much less desirable choice for Londoners.

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Amur leopard
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

All sounds quite hight and mighty but not suitable for this huge metropolis we live in. Forget the 'climate emergency' - thats for our Government and others to develop and roll out across the country/world. Reduce pollution by making more...

Show full comment

All sounds quite hight and mighty but not suitable for this huge metropolis we live in. Forget the 'climate emergency' - thats for our Government and others to develop and roll out across the country/world. Reduce pollution by making more green spaces, plant trees and by all means encourage people to use public transport but you have to get that right first. Its a nonsense to tell people to walk or cycle to work when many live quite a distance from their place of work, many are not confident on a bike and the weather here is cold, wet & windy for a large part of the year...get real! Give people the choice - widen the roads and make them free-flowing (the south circular is a joke!), improve cycle lanes so that they don't suddenly run out and improve public transport.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Green, well functioning public transport is required beyond safe walking and cycling routes. Recycling needs to be developed locally; Thai could create jobs and a new high-tech opportunities.

Show full comment

Green, well functioning public transport is required beyond safe walking and cycling routes. Recycling needs to be developed locally; Thai could create jobs and a new high-tech opportunities.

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Sea turtle
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Creating a network of long distance walking and cycling routes, properly designed and worked out, which stretch right out as far as 10-15 miles away is essential and a great opportunity. Each would have a name and an identity, and be...

Show full comment

Creating a network of long distance walking and cycling routes, properly designed and worked out, which stretch right out as far as 10-15 miles away is essential and a great opportunity. Each would have a name and an identity, and be signposted, a bit like creating long distance footpaths but in and out of London not just around it (London Loop etc.)

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

How does a new four lane motorway with no cycling or walking or room for cargo bikes fit in with a Green New Deal? 

It will bring new bigger HGVs into Greenwich and Newham. It is carbon intensive. It will make our air quality worse. 

It...

Show full comment

How does a new four lane motorway with no cycling or walking or room for cargo bikes fit in with a Green New Deal? 

It will bring new bigger HGVs into Greenwich and Newham. It is carbon intensive. It will make our air quality worse. 

It goes against everything Mayor of London purports to stand for.

South east Londoners will face massive disruption for six years while it’s built then be charged to cross the river by both Silvertown and Blackwall Tunnels, to pay back the crippling PFI.

#SilvertownTunnel must be stopped. 

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

The incredible conceit here is that somehow the Mayor of London and London Assembly can create new businesses that it believes are noble and worthwhile, by the process of taxing other businesses that are sustainable to subsidise those that...

Show full comment

The incredible conceit here is that somehow the Mayor of London and London Assembly can create new businesses that it believes are noble and worthwhile, by the process of taxing other businesses that are sustainable to subsidise those that are not viable.  This is the political economic philosophy espoused at the last General Election by the Green Party, which got 2.7% of the vote.  How is this to be paid for?

Retrofitting buildings (with insulation and new heating) is a transfer to those who haven't maintained their buildings and will gain from energy savings paid for by others.  What are "community and renewable energy projects"?  There is no serious means for London to generate most of its electricity locally, it's going to be nuclear and gas powered energy that does it, despite the wishful thinking of a tiny activist group that don't understand energy.  Transport policy for the last twenty years has been focused on cycling (although pedestrian crossings at traffic lights across London often don't exist) and on making driving unpleasant, but the result has been worse pollution and congestion AND people are avoiding public transport because of Covid19 for good reason.  There is no money to fund this nonsense when the roads can't even be properly maintained.

Show less of comment

Avatar for - Gorilla
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

Libertyscott, sorry, l missed your contribution to the discussion here ( or were you wanting to simply shut it down? )

Show full comment

Libertyscott, sorry, l missed your contribution to the discussion here ( or were you wanting to simply shut it down? )

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

We absolutely must plant urban trees everywhere possible, start watering growing trees and also give protection to mature trees from development and also from aggressive tree "surgeons" who cut too much and too often. I'm not even sure why...

Show full comment

We absolutely must plant urban trees everywhere possible, start watering growing trees and also give protection to mature trees from development and also from aggressive tree "surgeons" who cut too much and too often. I'm not even sure why they cut branches from perfectly healthy trees. We also need to release councils from liability for tree incidents, so that they become communal natural feature, rather than council's maintenance responsibility.

Another important thing to do is to quickly seed as many London lawns as possible, to turn them into urban meadows to boost healthy insect, bird and mammal populations.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

That's all gobbledegook. What do you mean? You are just using catch all phrases like 'increase Green economy'. What does that actually mean? Different things to different people. How can you ask for something to be supported if it is vague...

Show full comment

That's all gobbledegook. What do you mean? You are just using catch all phrases like 'increase Green economy'. What does that actually mean? Different things to different people. How can you ask for something to be supported if it is vague and unstructured?
What is a Green Skill? How can I get one? How can I increase one if I have it?
How does a public realm become green, or even my lifestyle? What does it mean. To one person 'we all become vegans' (no thank you very much) to another we walk and cycle (no to the latter, ta) and to another use public transport more (I'm fine with that). Which do you mean? How do I say yes to one and no to another?
Increase green spaces - more houses with gardens then, except you are planning more high rise buildings with a plot of lawn around them - much less green space per person than London used to have. In other words, what you say is almost the opposite of what you are planning.

Show less of comment

Avatar for -
Up vote 0
Care 0
Report

It's one thing to incentivize cycling and electric cars, and insist that builders install solar panels and vertical gardens. But it's equally critical to not forget where we come from.

By not exempting Classic cars from all charges...

Show full comment

It's one thing to incentivize cycling and electric cars, and insist that builders install solar panels and vertical gardens. But it's equally critical to not forget where we come from.

By not exempting Classic cars from all charges, despite their incredibly low use and negligible numbers, you are literally deleting joy from tourists and Londoners who come to and admire our city for its rich history. These moving monuments are a part of that history and do no measurable harm to our city. The few that are left should be treasured and encouraged to ply on our roads, not taxed into oblivion.

 

Show less of comment


Timeline

STAGE: Evidence gathering

Life in lockdown

Happened
-

Londoners have responded 7020 times

Find out more

London's recovery

Happened

Londoners have posted 378 comments

Have a look

London’s recovery from COVID-19 – what you told us so far

Happened
Read more

July 2020: Mission Refinement Stakeholder Workshop

Happened

August 2020: Mission Refinement Stakeholder Survey

Happened

A Green New Deal

Happened
-

Londoners have posted 332 comments

Have a look

August 2020: targeted community conversations

Happened

How your feedback has started to shape London’s road to recovery

Happened
Read our update

Mayor launches £10m Green New Deal fund

Happened
Read more about it
STAGE: Programme design

Stakeholder Workshop - Retrofitting London’s Domestic Housing 

Happened

Stakeholder Workshop - Zero Emission Zones

Happened

January 2021: Stakeholder Workshop - Enhancing Green Spaces and Climate Resilience

Happened

New standards for Low Emissions Zone for heavy vehicles

Happened
Read the press release

Share your ideas to reimagine London

Happened
-

You and other Londoners have shared 166 ideas

Have a look

Business Climate Challenge launched

Happened
Read more about it

Mayor announces ‘retrofit revolution’

Happened
Read the press release

Grow Back Greener grants launched

Happened
Read about the grants

New climate change web page launched

Happened
Take a look

Ultra Low Emission Zone expanded to cover inner London

Happened
Read more about the ULEZ expansion

£7.5m Future Neighbourhoods 2030 programme launched

Happened
Read the press release

Five schools win £10,000 each for Climate Kick-Start projects

Happened
Read the Climate Kick-Start Prize press release

Statement on COP26 agreement from Sadiq Khan as Chair of C40

Happened
Read Sadiq Khan's COP26 statement

Mayor announces plan to reach net zero carbon emissions by 2030

Happened
Read the press release about the Mayor's net zero plans