More powers for London
The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has re-formed the London Finance Commission (LFC) to help the Mayor and London’s local authorities improve the tax and public spending arrangements for London in order to promote jobs, growth and greater equality.
Currently, New York City and a number of other large international cities have significantly more control over the collection and spend of taxes than London has. Some people think London government should have more control over its taxation in order to make public spending decisions that fit local priorities. Others think that the national government should control taxes and spending so finances can be distributed in the interests of the whole country.
Do you think that London government should have more control of taxes and spending on public services in London or not, and why? Are there particular taxes (council tax, stamp duty, income tax etc) that you think London should retain more of, and why? How do you think more local control of finances might affect you?
The discussion ran from 05 October 2016 - 05 January 2017
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Community Member 8 years agoAnyone who would trust this little mayor with a scintilla more responsibility than he already has must be mad. His only genuine interest appears to be looking after his clique of support. This country is suffering enough from division along...
Show full commentAnyone who would trust this little mayor with a scintilla more responsibility than he already has must be mad. His only genuine interest appears to be looking after his clique of support. This country is suffering enough from division along economic and political lines, it needs more divisions along ethnic lines, (for that's what the little mayor wants), like a hole in the head. His next proposal will be to separate largely ethnic minority inner London from outer London.
He should remember that the wealth generated by the City of London is almost totally created by people who live outside it. If he really wants to put the money where the wealth creators are, he's going to have to spread it largely amongst the home counties.
Show less of commentStephen James
Community Member 8 years agoThe London Devolution Agreement as outlined in the spring budget is a positive step in the right direction. It became clear last year that the views of Londoners was largely at odds with the rest of the country and so it is a logical step...
Show full commentThe London Devolution Agreement as outlined in the spring budget is a positive step in the right direction. It became clear last year that the views of Londoners was largely at odds with the rest of the country and so it is a logical step to separate the tax and aspects of the legal system for London from that of the rest of the country. With news today that Scotland are likely to have a second vote and this time probably break away from the UK it is time for London to consider the same. The London Devolution Agreement will help shape the direction
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 8 years agoOn Wednesday last week the spring Budget was announced in the House of Commons, and within it The London Devolution Agreement. This provides London with more control over taxes and spending:London will be piloting a new way to fund major infrastructure projects in the city, which will make it faster for projects to be built; new options for control over business rates are being considered, which will lower barriers to starting a business in the capital; there'll be scope to adapt the criminal justice system to suit London’s unique needs; there will be more local powers over healthcare with the aim that services can better meet the needs of local communities; TfL will have new powers to help reduce congestion; skills provision and careers services will be more closely aligned with local needs and communities; and employment services will be improved, helping people actively looking for work and those in need of more training.Did you hear or read about the spring Budget? What did you think about these issues or others that affect London? Are there issues that you think the Mayor should lobby for to continue to get devolved powers for the city?Talk London Team
menzieseileen
Community Member 8 years agoWould taxes be kept by Mayor's office or devolved to Boroughs? If it happened, i.e. we did keep more of our taxes, it would be vital to remember the importance of helping the rest of the country all with much to offer but with less access...
Show full commentWould taxes be kept by Mayor's office or devolved to Boroughs? If it happened, i.e. we did keep more of our taxes, it would be vital to remember the importance of helping the rest of the country all with much to offer but with less access to finance. We do not want to keep drawing all the best educated people from other parts to London ( If it were devolved it would be equally important that Boroughs do not take the money to keep Council tax down but to improve services.
Show less of commentJay ginn
Community Member 8 years agoThe most pressing need is for London to have the funds to help borough councils to provide social care and housing for vulnerable people.
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoI don't trust this mean spirited little Mayor at all. "improve the tax and public spending arrangements for London in order to promote jobs, growth and greater equality". What's equality got to do with it? Unemployment is relatively low in...
Show full commentI don't trust this mean spirited little Mayor at all. "improve the tax and public spending arrangements for London in order to promote jobs, growth and greater equality". What's equality got to do with it? Unemployment is relatively low in London, its reasonable to promote jobs in high unemployment areas.
The financial contribution London makes to national finances is due to its commercial and business interests. Although they're located in London, many, if not most of the people working there live well outside London. Why isn't this little Mayor asking to share some of the revenue generated with the places where the workers live?
This policy suggestion is mean and small minded and should be ignored.
London & the South East is relatively rich, it's reasonable that they should spread the wealth around poorer areas of the country.
Show less of commentBob Hoskins
Community Member 8 years agoSo, Sadiq wants more of our money to spend. That's not a bad thing per se, but bear in mind that the last labour, and then independent, mayor thought that Hugo Chavez was an exemplar of governance.
If Sadiq wants more money to spend from...
Show full commentSo, Sadiq wants more of our money to spend. That's not a bad thing per se, but bear in mind that the last labour, and then independent, mayor thought that Hugo Chavez was an exemplar of governance.
If Sadiq wants more money to spend from Londoners on Londoners, then the fairest way to do that would be on a per head basis, say £100 per head per annum. That would most align taxation with representation and if he didn't spend it well, we would not re-elect him. I think that sounds like a good idea. I believe Mrs Thatcher, who is up here in heaven with me, would approve. She calls it the community charge.
Or am I missing his intentions? Surely he wouldn't simply want to squeeze the wealth creators until the pips squeezed? That would be the fastes way to have us all leave to join all the bankers in Switzerland?
But what do I know. I had a few problems raising money myself....
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoI agree that London government should have more control over spending in London. There should be far more flexibility for the Mayor and the Boroughs in the way that the grants from central government can be spent. At present far too much...
Show full commentI agree that London government should have more control over spending in London. There should be far more flexibility for the Mayor and the Boroughs in the way that the grants from central government can be spent. At present far too much decision-making is located in Whitehall/Westminster when it should be local: local priorities should be more important. But this does not mean any change is needed in the way taxes are distributed. Resources from taxation should continue to be distributed by central government according to need and relative income across the country.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoI would hope that the Mayor could obtain total control over the two land taxes: council tax and non-domestic rates, to the extent of being able to replace them by a better land tax, site value tax applied at the same rate across all types...
Show full commentI would hope that the Mayor could obtain total control over the two land taxes: council tax and non-domestic rates, to the extent of being able to replace them by a better land tax, site value tax applied at the same rate across all types of land irrespective of use. That would be more neutral, less harmful to incentives.
Whitehall restrictions on increases in tax rates for both the Mayor and the boroughs should be dropped with the remedy being at the ballot box. But that in turn would require more effective mechanisms for local democracy, which the Mayor should push for at the same time, eg proportional representation, recall elections.
I do not think that central government taxes or the power to create wholly new taxes should be devolved.
Show less of commentamencarini
Community Member 8 years agoAs a EU citizen, I'd be glad to contribute more taxes to a government that welcomes me (London) vs a government that is pushing hard to make me move somewhere else (HMG).
Routemaster
Community Member 8 years agoDid I miss something? Which government has made the slightest move or even signal to make you move elsewhere? Please share so we can understand your predicament. Sadly, no taxes are optional depending on whether you feel welcome / rich /...
Show full commentDid I miss something? Which government has made the slightest move or even signal to make you move elsewhere? Please share so we can understand your predicament. Sadly, no taxes are optional depending on whether you feel welcome / rich / happy etc or not.
Show less of commentYou are right of course that the BREXIT vote means that UK citizens are likely to no longer be "EU citizens" as well but that doesn't change your status whcih derives from you passport issuing countrys membership of the EU.
Stephen James
Community Member 8 years agoIt is incorrect to say that devolution has been tried and abandoned. Devolution continues as the sound basis of government in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Indeed, in Northern Ireland, for the last 20 years, it is devolution that...
Show full commentIt is incorrect to say that devolution has been tried and abandoned. Devolution continues as the sound basis of government in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Indeed, in Northern Ireland, for the last 20 years, it is devolution that has been the fundamental basis by which peace in Ireland and in the UK has been achieved and sustained. There have, in its time, been periods of uncertainty but these have been resolved and devolved power has remained.
Devolution for both Scotland and Wales happened towards the end of the last century and was justified on the basis that it would make government more responsive to the wishes of the people of Scotland and Wales. It was argued that the population of Scotland and Wales felt detached from London.
It can be argued that the circumstances behind seeking devolved powers for London away from the UK are similar to those that existed when Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland sought devolution. A significant number of Londoners feel detached from the provinces in terms of their aspirations, beliefs, principles and perhaps even sense of identity.
The devolved power for each of NI, Scotland and Wales still exists. None have been abandoned. Devolution exists and has served well. If you ask the people of Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland whether it was a waste of money you can make a good guess at their answer.
Show less of commentbuildgit
Community Member 8 years agoI am not too sure devolution in the Scottish or other country sense need apply to London . For me the perspective is to give more power to the GLC by reducing the powers of the local athorities within . Get planning powers , education...
Show full commentI am not too sure devolution in the Scottish or other country sense need apply to London . For me the perspective is to give more power to the GLC by reducing the powers of the local athorities within . Get planning powers , education powers to the GLC , leave the local boroughs to their rubbish collection and adjust the local tax take accordingly .
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoDevolution has been tried before in the UK, costing £MMMM, and has been abandoned, We are only a small island- in many ways...-so surely wasting good money agaian is a no- brainer...There are plenty of ways to spend money effectively, and...
Show full commentDevolution has been tried before in the UK, costing £MMMM, and has been abandoned, We are only a small island- in many ways...-so surely wasting good money agaian is a no- brainer...There are plenty of ways to spend money effectively, and get 'value' for it, we are not exactly flush as taxes and costs are going up anyway...John Cane
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 8 years agoHi all,We wanted to post an update to let you know that today the London Finance Commission has published a report, 'Devolution: a capital idea', containing proposals for devolution to London. More here.Talk London Team
Anonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoAn example of more money being wasted on this 'report'. Most times these reports are preset, with a hidden agenda, and only go public to try and give them credence or sort out some anomalies not thought of at first!
livehere
Community Member 8 years agoIf London were to have more control of taxes and spending, then Londoners should have greater say than they currently do on taxation and spending. TfL for example are like an arrogant law unto themselves. The GLA Transport Committee and TfL...
Show full commentIf London were to have more control of taxes and spending, then Londoners should have greater say than they currently do on taxation and spending. TfL for example are like an arrogant law unto themselves. The GLA Transport Committee and TfL are currently working on proposals for the pedestrianisation of Oxford Street without involving the associations that represent the residents who will be affected by the traffic flow and bus route changes. There will be a so-called 'consultation' only AFTER a 'viable solution' has been selected. I.e. not a consultation at all, just a mockery of one. This is not good enough.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoAlso we have spent £MMM on cycle super highways, that are not safe. London's layout is old and complex and to put in place special lanes/areas for cyclists takes the highways away from tax paying motor vehicles. After all we can see many...
Show full commentAlso we have spent £MMM on cycle super highways, that are not safe. London's layout is old and complex and to put in place special lanes/areas for cyclists takes the highways away from tax paying motor vehicles. After all we can see many instances of stupid cyclists ignoring road markings and traffic signals, Read the Highway Code and that includes cyclists and all road users, At least they should be Insured, that would help!
Show less of commentec2man
Community Member 8 years agoYes, a city like London should have more control over its own taxes and spending, as should the rest of the country, but this is nothing but wishful thinking. Britain has one of the most centralised systems of government in the world - it...
Show full commentYes, a city like London should have more control over its own taxes and spending, as should the rest of the country, but this is nothing but wishful thinking. Britain has one of the most centralised systems of government in the world - it is deeply rooted in the idea that 'the man in Whitehall knows best'. Local government is dysfunctional in this country because it offers the illusion that it is governing when all it is really doing is acting on Whitehall instruction, with Whitehall-disbursed money, and with very little discretion. The idea that Whitehall (i.e., The Treasury) will allow a more localised form of government is good in theory - but it won't happen without a political revolution.
Show less of commentTalk London
Official Representative 8 years agoThanks for all of your comments. A range of opinions and lots of interesting ideas have been posted.A couple of you have mentioned specific taxes. It would be great to hear more. Are there certain taxes you’d say are more suitable to being controlled by London? For example, stamp duty – given that London’s property market is more inflated than elsewhere. Or perhaps income tax, or council tax. Or do you think the big budgets should be left with central government?It’d be great to hear some of your further thoughts.Talk London Team
Stephen James
Community Member 8 years agoOne of the primary issues that has been a constant theme in this and other Discussion Boards is peoples fear that London will lose its place as Europe’s leading business centre. Significant steps need to be taken to shore up the broad range...
Show full commentOne of the primary issues that has been a constant theme in this and other Discussion Boards is peoples fear that London will lose its place as Europe’s leading business centre. Significant steps need to be taken to shore up the broad range of components that makes London operate as it does and one of those is to raise tax revenues and spend accordingly.
To that end, when determining which taxes to focus on it largely depends upon how the tax raised is to be administered and the timescale over which the revenue can be raised.
London is a complex series of interdependent machine cogs. If, for example, the revenue from Stamp Duty was simply ploughed back into housing then some of the other cogs maybe neglected. As such, far better to pool the revenue from whatever source and use it where it is needed and to do it so quickly. So, whatever taxes most likely to raise revenue quickly are those that should be address soonest.
Contrary to some comments I’ve seen, we cannot take our time. Paris and Berlin are not going to allow much time and nor are the markets. With an ever weakening pound inflation will soon bite particularly for those commodities priced in dollars and those manufactured goods requiring imports.
A direct governmental interventionist approach has rarely in past decades produced the desired effects – markets usually ‘win out’. However, these are exceptional times and so the London Assembly should first decide what are the real critical components of what defines London business then the tax revenues, from whatever source, should be used soonest to protect that business.
Show less of commentmodtro
Community Member 8 years agoThe London Finance Commission's report 'Raising the Capital' was remarkably modest in its recommendations. While the suggestion that any changes shouldn't have a net negative effect on the subsidy we give to the rest of the country (we'd...
Show full commentThe London Finance Commission's report 'Raising the Capital' was remarkably modest in its recommendations. While the suggestion that any changes shouldn't have a net negative effect on the subsidy we give to the rest of the country (we'd keep only the growth from property taxes?) should - one would have hoped - made its proposals likelier to be implement (although we're still waiting), it allows the continuation of the near-millennium-long tradition of governments treating London as a cash cow, ultimately punishing the city for its success.
I for one would like to see London keep ALL of its £34 billion (as of 2014) surplus from ALL taxes. If you're left-wing, this could be spent on improving public services; if you're right-wing, it could be spent on a whopping tax cut. Even for a centrist it's £17 billion of one and £17 billion of the other.
Spending and policymaking-wise, I see no reason we shouldn't eventually if gradually have devolved matters at least matching those as in Scotland - if not everything bar defence. (Although building up the institutions to deal with this would obviously take a while.)
Perhaps a new Deputy Mayor for UK and International Development could allocate a small share of our surplus to the rest of the country to show there're no hard feelings - once their eligibility for European Regional Development funding (out of which they've voted themselves) has ended.
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoYes: It's critical that the London government/LFC gets more control of taxes and spending on public services in London.
Show full commentWhy: London generates about one third of the UK’s tax (subsidising the rest of the UK). London (and therefore, the UK)...
Yes: It's critical that the London government/LFC gets more control of taxes and spending on public services in London.
Why: London generates about one third of the UK’s tax (subsidising the rest of the UK). London (and therefore, the UK)’s economic success has been put at extreme risk by the vote to leave the EU. To ensure that London can remain a global city (attractive to investment and able to continue with development) then the London government must take more control of taxes/spending and negotiate relationships that work with the rest of the UK and the world.
Would London benefit from being an independent City State like Singapore or Gibraltar?
Show less of commentbuildgit
Community Member 8 years agoYes, I agree needs more self government and with that a tax raising ability . It is a large area and I think the London Assembly needs more power to support london . I also think that the powers of local authorities within london need to...
Show full commentYes, I agree needs more self government and with that a tax raising ability . It is a large area and I think the London Assembly needs more power to support london . I also think that the powers of local authorities within london need to be reduced and local councils play a much more secondary and consultative role only . That said I think it is up to the London Assembly to articulate and direct the competing needs and desires of what are currently the lower tier local authorities .
Show less of commentAnonymous - account deleted
Community Member 8 years agoToo many areas of deductions (tax) tend to water down what is available, and can cause duplication of certain areas and waste (and we have plenty of that areas of that). If the taxation is centralised, it would avoid duplication of wages...
Show full commentToo many areas of deductions (tax) tend to water down what is available, and can cause duplication of certain areas and waste (and we have plenty of that areas of that). If the taxation is centralised, it would avoid duplication of wages for example and larger sums can then be deployed for better value.... The bigger picture could be seen more easily, instead of being fragmented. In any event the bulk of the banking is in the City (within, but separate form the London entity) and THAT should certainly remain separate as the Jewel..!!
Show less of commentDuncan Lyons
Community Member 8 years agoI certainly think that, in all fairness, the Mayor and the London Assembly Members who are directly elected by Londoners should have more power over London's affairs (just who is the Minister for London in the Government?).
The London...
Show full commentI certainly think that, in all fairness, the Mayor and the London Assembly Members who are directly elected by Londoners should have more power over London's affairs (just who is the Minister for London in the Government?).
The London Mayor should be able to set London stamp tax rates and receive London stamp tax revenue . Then the Mayor could raise stamp duty to damp down property prices and use the stamp duty revenue to promote house building. This would mean that my children's generation would have more chance of owning a home.
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