COVID-19 Vaccination Delivery in London (Supplementary) [19]

Martin Machray (Joint Regional Chief Nurse for London and Covid-19 Incident Director, NHS England):  Yes.  You have already heard in a previous answer, Assembly Member, that the GP systems and systems that we had when we started this on 8 December [2020] did not collect that information and that is a frustration for us all.  Many practices and hospitals have set up local systems to overcome that, but what everyone is really committed to is making sure that we do not give up on any Londoner.  That is a really important message.  It goes back to that conversation I had with the care home manager and her staff about uptake. 

You do not say, “One strike and you are out”.  That is not the NHS’s or London’s approach to its population.  Our approach is to work with people, with communities and, therefore, it is vital that we go back and back, not nagging, but go back and be there for when they are ready to make that decision.  We are a bit stymied by some of the new systems that have come into place.  They are improving day to day, but that should not override our commitment to do the right thing.

Joanne McCartney AM:  OK, so there will be capacity in the system later on.  That is helpful to know.

Martin Machray (Joint Regional Chief Nurse for London and Covid-19 Incident Director, NHS England):  Absolutely.

Joanne McCartney AM:  There are some reports that some employers are saying that they will only take new employees who have had the vaccination on a “no jab, no job” policy, and I am just wondering - perhaps this is better for Tom - what your view is of this.  There are some ethical issues with regards to a lot of the debate around vaccines.  What is your view on that, and in the public health sphere, is there any discussion to be had about whether it is going to be advisable for all health and front-facing workers to have had the jab?

Dr Tom Coffey (Mayoral Health Advisor):  Thank you, Joanne.  The view at the moment is very much that people have a choice over whether they wish to have a vaccine or not.  We have said again and again that trust is vital between the Government, the health service and the Londoner, regarding the choice to have the vaccine.  I think any move towards making it compulsory will undermine that process.

Joanne McCartney AM:  I agree.

Dr Tom Coffey (Mayoral Health Advisor):  At the moment, I think it is vitally important that we say very clearly, “This vaccine is safe and effective, it will protect you against getting COVID and it could also protect you from passing COVID on to someone else.  We now have emerging evidence for that, but a key reason we are doing it is because it protects you from getting COVID and becoming seriously unwell with COVID”.  I would rather use that message at the moment than any level of coercion, because once one goes down the path of coercion you further undermine, potentially, the issues of trust which we know are the main reason now regarding vaccine hesitancy.

Joanne McCartney AM:  Yes.  It just strikes me that there might be some work to be done with employers then, with regards to this, because otherwise there could be some serious ramifications.

Dr Tom Coffey (Mayoral Health Advisor):  Yes, that is a fair point.  Indeed.

Joanne McCartney AM:  The other thing I wanted to ask, and perhaps again for Tom, is that the Danish Government announced yesterday that it intends to introduce a digital Corona Pass that will allow its citizens to show airlines and other countries that they are up to date with their vaccinations.  Is that something that is actively being discussed at the moment in the UK?  Again, I can see there will be some implications for that as well with regard to those people who may not want to, or perhaps have medical reasons as to why they should not and could not take the vaccine?

Dr Tom Coffey (Mayoral Health Advisor):  I am not aware of those discussions, but this is a discussion we should be taking at a Government level.  This is something which would not be done on a city-wide basis, very much a Government-wide basis.  We are very clear at the moment that even when you have had the vaccination, you must still follow the social distancing rules, you must still work from home and you must still be very careful about how you live your life because of the risk, still, of passing on an infection unknowingly.  I am not aware of those discussions.  Martin might be aware, but my sense is at the moment that I am not aware of any plans to do that in the UK.

Martin Machray (Joint Regional Chief Nurse for London and Covid-19 Incident Director, NHS England):  No, I have not heard of any either, but you have already alluded to the significant ethical debate that would need to take place around that.  As with all of this, I think that debate would be healthy.

Navin Shah AM (Chair):  Thank you.  Next is a question from Assembly Member Devenish.